Ukrainian crisis news 2.0

http://atimes.com/2016/01/obama-changes-tack-on-russia-calls-up-putin/

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Apparently someone in Russia is still not happy with the international MH17 report - which came into being with Russian cooperation. After the initial counter-report by the BUK producer (who also cooperated with the Final Report), which didn't really bring anything new, it was quiet for some time, but now the sub-head of the Russian aviation authority, Oleg Stortshevoy, speaks out.

His main objections are the supposed lack of attention to the air space regulation over Ukraine (not really a forensic issue, but was still addressed in the Final Report). Apparently the blame should have been placed squarely with Ukraine aviation regulators.

He then focuses on personal comments of the presenter of the Final Report, Joustra. Apparently this proves the 'lack of willingness' to investigate BUK specifications. So again, no objection of a forensic nature.

Follows the contention that the Safety Board 'never intended to execute experimental tests' (said tests are extensively documented in the Final Report). So again, not even close to a forensic objection, but simply a case of very bad reading.

Joustra's remark that the (BUK) tests weren't done in accordance with ICAO regulations (the Safety Board was not invited) is supposed to 'prove the Safety Boards experts' inadequacy with regard to the methodology of combat damage to air plane constructions'. An odd conclusion and certainly not one forensically substantiated.

The subhead finishes with that the Safety Board's conclusion that Russians could have been involved proves prejudice. I'm not sure how a conclusion (very carefully worded at that) is supposed to prove a priori prejudice. The conclusion is based on the forensic evidence. I guess you have to be subhead of Russian aviation to see any prejudice in forensic evidence.

Interestingly, the only aviation question still unanswered - why the Russian radar recordings of the MH17 incident had been destroyed - was ignored by Stortshevoy. We'll assume no critical questions were being asked at the press conference.

So after the rebuttal included in the Final Report of all Russian contentions about the MH17 crash, the serious objections turn out to be rather minor. In fact, one can sum it up as: Russia is not happy with the findings. That's not really surprising.

Only found a Dutch source so far: http://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/-mh17-rapport-is-niet-objectief~a4226806/ (well placed in the Opinion section), but I'm sure there's a Russian source available.

Mechanicalsalvation said:

Pro-democracy nacist and fascist? What kind of "democracy" do you have in mind?

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Certainly not like the one where they had in the Crimea, where armed troops manned the polling booths, where voters were bussed in all the way from Russia to be taken from polling station to polling station to vote over and over and over again. And then to have the ruling junta and its minions counting the votes.

Zkribbler said:

...where armed troops manned the polling booths, where voters were bussed in all the way from Russia to be taken from polling station to polling station to vote over and over and over again...

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Got any source to confirm this?
I know you will not reply, because you don't have any, but still.

@red_elk: "...на колу мочало, начинай сначала."*

___________
*my apologies to all the people who don't speak Russian, but I seriously don't know any equivalent of it in English. It's a rhymed saying, which is a part of a mockery nonsensical story that has no end as it goes in circles. And therefore is used to ironically point that some conversation repetitively goes in circles making no sense in the process. Very much like this thread, which now has returned to Crimea, which has been discussed in all possible aspects, and many times, and with no apparent effect. And it still resembles Monty Python's "Argument" sketch.

Zkribbler said:

Certainly not like the one where they had in the Crimea, where armed troops manned the polling booths, where voters were bussed in all the way from Russia to be taken from polling station to polling station to vote over and over and over again. And then to have the ruling junta and its minions counting the votes.

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I am ready to be brainwashed - just give me something more then these fantasies. Btw there is no bus connection between Russia and Crimea. Just look at the map...

Have a look at something relevant please:

Link to video.

And this is what the author of this document states:

Paul Moreira said:

“I knew I was going to meet a strong opposition, would be accused of playing into the hands of Putin, of using elements of propaganda. I didn’t expect to meet such denial, bordering on hysteria… I was called a ‘terrorist’ in the pay of the Russian secret services. [They are] urging that the film be banned.

“Even the Ukrainian ambassador pressured Canal Plus. That is what surprises me the most. For it seems to me that Ukraine must urgently raise the question of these paramilitary groups. They are, as stated in the film, the greatest threat to Ukrainian democracy.”

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Mechanicalsalvation said:

Have a look at something relevant please:

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I heard about this movie - the Ukrainian reaction made a good advertising to it (they demanded from France to forbid broadcasting of the movie and claimed it to be Russian propaganda). But didn't find translation to Russian or English yet, so can't comment on it.

From what I can see, Russian officials are not particularly delighted with the movie either, but I think I'll watch it anyway as soon as proper translation appears.

Mechanicalsalvation said:

Btw there is no bus connection between Russia and Crimea. Just look at the map...

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There are direct bus routes... through Ukrainian territory
Now, while Kerch bridge is not completed, passengers have to use ferry line to get there.
That's why even most hardcore Ukrainian apologists usually don't claim that Russia "bussed people" to vote in Crimea referendum.

red_elk said:

There are direct bus routes... through Ukrainian territory
Now, while Kerch bridge is not completed, passengers have to use ferry line to get there.
That's why even most hardcore Ukrainian apologists usually don't claim that Russia "bussed people" to vote in Crimea referendum.

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Because we know Crimea has been pro-Russia anyway.

Bavarian PM calls anti-Russian sanctions 'a mistake'
http://tass.ru/en/world/854643

A bit of old news, that. I read a comment in a German newspaper a few days ago calling such politicians 'useful idiots'. It's not likely that without 'the sanctions' Putin would have changed his stance with regard to Ukraine. So sometimes sanctions do have a positive effect.

But you see, that's the beauty of democracy: everyone can express their opinion.

Ukraine marks second anniversary of Maidan protests, amidst economical and political crisis.
New tents were placed in Maidan square, fights broke out between Right Sector activists and National Guard troops in Odessa and Kiev.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/02/20/ukraine-demonstrators-attack-russian-banks.html


"Pro-democracy and pro-free-market" protesters also attacked office of Alpha-bank in Kiev.


Link to video.

red_elk said:

Ukraine marks second anniversary of Maidan protests, amidst economical and political crisis.
New tents were placed in Maidan square, fights broke out between Right Sector activists and National Guard troops in Odessa and Kiev.

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That's new. (Or is it?)

red_elk said:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/02/20/ukraine-demonstrators-attack-russian-banks.html
"Pro-democracy and pro-free-market" protesters also attacked office of Alpha-bank in Kiev.

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And that simply doesn't sound right.

February events:

- Ukraine economy minister resigns "in a dramatic fashion", accusing government in high level of corruption.

"The Lithuania-born Mr Abromavicius is one of several foreign technocrats who took Ukrainian citizenship when appointed to ministerial posts in 2014 as part of a highly touted reform campaign."
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/201de2b0-ca91-11e5-be0b-b7ece4e953a0.html


- EU puts additional pressure, urging sides to implement Minsk agreement.

Ukraine must uphold its part of the Minsk agreement or risk a collapse of support for EU sanctions against Moscow, Denmark’s foreign minister said on 5 February.

The European Union is pressing Kyiv to overcome political feuding and implement reforms to bring Ukraine out of Russia’s shadow and into the West, but the resignation of Ukraine’s frustrated economy minister has underlined the difficulties.

“If Ukraine doesn’t come through with the reforms linked to the Minsk peace process, it will be very difficult for Europe to continue united in support for sanctions against Russia,” Kristian Jensen told Reuters, referring to the peace deal agreed by Ukraine, Russia, France and Germany last year (see background).

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https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu...-patience-with-ukraine-over-minsk-compliance/

Something I just have read from Czech ex-intelligence agent: when Ukrainians will find out all the things they dont own anymore at home they will forget about Crimea.

red_elk said:

February events:

- Ukraine economy minister resigns "in a dramatic fashion", accusing government in high level of corruption.

"The Lithuania-born Mr Abromavicius is one of several foreign technocrats who took Ukrainian citizenship when appointed to ministerial posts in 2014 as part of a highly touted reform campaign."
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/201de2b0-ca91-11e5-be0b-b7ece4e953a0.html

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Any further claims that the Ukrainian government is corrupt are banned, not a joke they actually passed a law yesterday that ''bans officials from criticizing government''.

Ukraine banned government officials on Tuesday from publicly criticizing the work of state institutions and their colleagues, after damaging disclosures last month that highlighted slow progress in fighting corruption.

The move immediately drew criticism from some civil servants who saw it as a blow to freedom of speech at odds with the embattled government's Western-backed reform drive.

The rule on "loyalty" is one of several outlined in a new ethics code that civil servants must follow or face disciplinary action, according to a decree posted on the government website.

"The government has decided to introduce standards of ethical conduct for civil servants to restore public faith in the work of the state bodies and officials," the decree said.

Government employees should "avoid any public criticisms of the work of state institutions and their officials," the code stipulates, alongside rules on the need for transparency and integrity.

The shock resignations in February of Economy Minister Aivaras Abromavicius and a top prosecutor shone a spotlight on the failure of the Kiev leadership to follow through on promises to eliminate the influence of vested interests on policymaking.

In a Facebook post about the new ethics code, Olena Minitch, a department head in the economy ministry, said the new rules appeared to have been "created hastily and adopted quickly" in the wake of Abromavicius's allegations about corrupt state practices.

"The little document ... is in the best traditions of the Communist period, more precisely in the traditions of Stalin and Beria," Minitch said, referring to repressive Soviet leader Josef Stalin and his security chief, Lavrenty Beria.

Others appeared to poke fun at the state's call for officials to toe the party line.

"I'm a loyal public servant. I'm thrilled with the work of state bodies (and) their officials," Ukraine's Ambassador-at-Large Dmytro Kuleba tweeted, linking to an article about the ban.

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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-censorship-idUSKCN0W351A

I was unaware that the Dutch are going to held popular vote on the association agreement between EU and Ukraine. The polles show it will be rejected:http://www.politico.eu/article/poll-netherlands-ratification-association-agreement-ukraine/

Agent327 said:

A bit of old news, that. I read a comment in a German newspaper a few days ago calling such politicians 'useful idiots'. It's not likely that without 'the sanctions' Putin would have changed his stance with regard to Ukraine. So sometimes sanctions do have a positive effect.

But you see, that's the beauty of democracy: everyone can express their opinion.

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What kind of change of stance you are talking about? Surely calling someone useful idiot is the height of democracy. That just sounds so very dialogue provoking and very inviting to new creative ideas and solutions. We need more of that democracy and most of all we need to give it to Russia since Ukraine seems to be already fertilized with it.

The rather obvious change of stance from 'we are not at war with Ukraine, so can't negotiate anything' to agreeing to the Minsk agreements. Not something that would be accomplished by friendly politicians traveling to either the Crimea or Russia. (Which they are of course free to do, not because of 'democracy', but because of not being on Russia's black list.)

Sorry you missed this rather obvious change of stance, as it was instrumental in the cessation of hostilities in easter Ukraine.

Mechanicalsalvation said:

I was unaware that the Dutch are going to held popular vote on the association agreement between EU and Ukraine. The polles show it will be rejected:http://www.politico.eu/article/poll-netherlands-ratification-association-agreement-ukraine/

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Possibly you were unaware, because it's incorrect. There will be a consultative referendum on the association treaty with Ukraine.

Mechanicalsalvation said:

Something I just have read from Czech ex-intelligence agent: when Ukrainians will find out all the things they dont own anymore at home they will forget about Crimea.

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That seems unlikely, but it might explain why unnamed person is an ex-intelligence agent.

Minsk agreements a) do not include Russia as a side, b) are hardly any essentially different from Genova agreements also signed by Russia. So I also don't see a lot of change of stance.