Lunatic Fringe: Moon Mod Discussion Thread

Beer Engine

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The Lunatic Fringe is going to be a complete mod of civ3 -- new units, new techs, new graphics, the whole nine yards.

The mod concept is exploration and colonization of the moon, along with the ramifications this will have on politics and warfare. My primary influence is a novel by Robert Heinlein, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", along with some of his shorter works.

So, anyway, the thread was up for a week and I got no replies -- granted, there was nothing to reply *to*, since what I posted was a bit sketchy. I've decided to rework things a bit.

This thread is an open notebook detailing the progress of the Lunatic Fringe and all the related game modificatons. I'm going to break things up by topic and post separate messages for each. As things grow and change, I'll go through and edit the related message. This should keep things compact enough for the casual spectator to keep tabs on my progress, while also opening things up for discussion, since the rest of you can post as many replies as you like.

In the coming weeks, I hope to show a lot of progress on this. Maybe I can also incorporate some of your ideas into the mod, too, and we'll all be pleased with the final results.
 
=Terrain=

this post last edited: 11 June 2002

I think I've got a handle on the terrain. You can check out the screenshots in the other thread.
thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=23633

Equivalencies

Ocean = Deep Space
Sea = High Orbit
Coast = Low Orbit

Grassland = Earth

Desert = Maria (the dark lunar 'seas')
Floodplains = Rilles (sinuous valleys formed by collapsed lava tubes on the maria)
Plains = Lunar Highlands
Tundra = Crater Floors
Hills = Crater Rims
Mountains = Lunar Mountains

Forests = Solar Array
Jungles = Blighted Earth

Rivers = Earth Rivers, Lunar Ice

In the mod, Earth is a peripheral player, so you can see there's a heavy bias toward lunar land forms. The lunar terrain type assignments were made because of the way some of the graphic files are set up -- obviously the food and shield values for the terrain types will be changed in the mod.

=

Deep Space (ocean) = 0/0/0
High Orbit (sea) = 0/0/0
Low Orbit (coast) = 0/0/0

Earth Surface (grassland) = 3/3/1
Blighted Earth (jungle) = 0/0/0

Maria (desert) = 0/0/0
Rilles (floodplains) = 0/0/0
Lunar Highlands (plains) = 0/0/0
Crater Floors (tundra) = 0/0/0
Crater Rims (hills) = 0/0/0
Lunar Mountains (mtns.) = 0/0/0

Solar Array (forest) = 0/3/0

Effects of:
irrigation = +2/-/-
mining = -/+1/- ; hills&mtns. -/+2/-
road = -/-/+1

Look pretty empty, doesn't it? Space gives you nothing, obviously. Two proposed 'orbital' bonus resources are Comm. Satellites (-/-/+3) and Orbital Habitats (+2/-/+1). These are bonuses for earth orbits, obviously, though the moon may have a few CommSats as well.

The moon is also pretty dead. Irrigation helps, with more advanced methods yeilding higher food values

You might note that irrigated earth terrain is 5/3/1, mined earth terrain is 3/4/1. Several reasons for this: The earth is more productive than the moon, the earth is supposed to be more crowded than the moon, the earth-based civs are supposed to kick your ass in the early game, and on the custom map, the relative amount of earth terrain will be *tiny* compared to the moon.

Also, as a balance, Blighted earth terrain must be reclaimed, and returns with the effects of global warming. (Blighted Earth is a 0/0/0 terrain.) With these huge populations and high shield counts, it also seems that pollution will be a problem for earth civs.

Growth on the moon will be slow, with all sort of improvements necessary for even small cities. But over time the growth potential is greater. The moon is wide open, while the small sections of Earth on the map will already be full when the game starts. Bonus resources, and the bonuses for strategic resources and luxuries will also help, but that will also make these resources highly contested among lunar factions. Planting solar arrays (forests) also helps, with a big 3 shield bonus. Solar power is a big plus for lunar civs. (I'm thinking of limiting solar arrays to lunar terrain types.)

=

Additional Comments:

Water = space. The two orbits seemed to work well for for both settings, lunar and terran, and also with the current coast/sea/ocean model, you can restrict the various space units so they operate only in low orbit, only in orbital space (low & high), or fully functional across all space types.

Forests and jungles are special. They're not natual land forms, at least not the way I'm using them. The Solar Array land type will not be on the map to begin with, but workers can still 'plant' them. The ubiquity of forests makes them handy for this; you should be able to set up a solar panel array on any flat terrain type. The new 'jungles' will be a major pain in the behind. Acting as a sort of tenacious pollution, the blighted areas of earth can be cleared, but global warming will bring them back. (This is the only terrain type that global warming will affect.) Early on, the player will have an impetus to go to the moon, since the local Earth terrain will need to be redeveloped continuously.

Small patches of water, on the moon, will be ice. For those of you not keeping up with Nasa, ice has been found on the moon in permanently shadowed areas, like the rims of polar craters. (Scientific instruments show a concentration of hydrogen in these areas. It's either water ice or some other hydrogen compound -- I'm going with ice. Actual scientific proof is still forthcoming.) In my modifications, I'm changing the small 'lakes' in the river graphics files to ice patches. On the map, it will look just about right: Rivers on earth, Ice on the moon.

Some nifty things I'm sort of ignoring: Snow covered mountains and pine forests. These separate graphics files don't affect the basic types, and I can't think of a way to use them. All forest graphics are the same in the mod, and the snowy peaks are just not used.
 
this post last edited 11 June 2002

A total of 16 factions, half lunar, half terran.

Please Note: The earth factions are there to provide diplomatic options. I'm thinking of restricting the player to just the lunar factions. Each lunar faction will have an earth sponsor as an ally (at least at the start of the game), so open warfare between factions is a risky option early on.


'Earthworm' factions

Federated Nations
North American Directorate
Greater China
India
PanAfrica
Brazilian Union
European Alliance
Russian Compact

'Lunatic' Factions

Lunar Authority
Free State
Hong Kong Luna (HKL)
Lunar Soviet
Etat d'Lune
Gengetsu Mindan (Crescent Moon Co., Japanese [I hope that's how it translates])
Dark Siders
Botany Bay

Notes:

(When I say something is "from the book" I'm refering to _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ by Robert Heinlein. Also, please, this is sci-fi, and the book was written in 1966. Some of my own material is mixed in as well. No offense to you or your nation is intended in any of my comments.)

=Federated Nations=

The FN is not a direct decendent of the United Nations, but fills a similar function on the earth of 2175. The FN is the ultimate peacekeeping body, featuring a space navy and land units that provide a deterrent force, keeping multinational war from breaking out.

The FN was founded following the Wet Firecracker War, in which nukes were deployed by combatant nations, but most were successfully countered before impact by interceptor rockets and other missle defenses. *Most* nukes, not all. The survivors got together, and in a rare fit of sanity gave up nuclear arms. The FN emerged, with one clear mandate: Keep the peace. The FN is a global super-cop, making sure it's members are safe both from outside threats and internal infighting.

Member nations are 'officially' allowed only defensive forces, with offense left to the FN Peace Army. (Please note that members ideas of 'defensive' weapons tends to include a lot of offensive hardware.) The Federated Nations are a lot more like NATO than the UN -- any attack on a member will provoke a response from the FN.

In the game, the FN will be permanently allied to all of the earthworm factions. Attack any one, and you'll have to deal with the Fed. I don't think the other factions will be allied to each other -- I'm not sure if I can get away with that, but I'll try.

Unique Units
1) Nukes. Nobody else has 'em. The FN is not a no-nukes organization, it's a no-nukes-but-mine organization.
2) a space based balistic-missle ship
3) Space Marines. Tough bastards, able to land from orbit and kick your ass.

- The Federated Nations are not meant to be a human-playable faction.


The other seven earthworm factions represent the "veto powers" within the FN, like the UN's Security Council.

In no particular order, they are:


=North American Directorate=

Think NAFTA on steroids. America is under a single administration, from Alaska down to the Yucatan. The King of England is recognized as the official head of state, but there is also a tri-cameral legislature, a prime minister, and a figurehead president elected once every ten years.

The complex government was formed so all 86 24hr. news channels would have something to report on. :p

North America is still a major economic power, but it also has its share of problems. What happens on the moon means very little for 750,000,000 or so citizens.

Unique units:
1) Interceptors. North America has the best missle defenses, able to stop most nukes, or even rocks falling from space. Of course, an interceptor rocket could be aimed at something other than incoming projectiles...
2) Clipper Ships. Fast, lightly armored spaceships -- maybe with a few 'privateer' abilities.


=Greater China=

At some point, China decided to try it's hand at imperialism. Taking over chunks of land from Korea, Japan, Southeast Asia, down through Indonesia, and just for kicks... Darwin, Austalia, and a good chunk of the Northern Territory besides. (Why invade Australia? Food. Global warming has changed the climate, and China wanted to secure the new grain producing region.)

China is the other major asian power in the game.

Unique Units:
1) 'elite' Conscript unit. Better than your basic conscript, just a basic foot soldier really, but cheap and quick to produce. (not sure what to call them yet. Militia?)
2) Dreadnaught class spaceship. Big, tough, slow. Massive bombard ability. But slooowww...


=India=

India's people haven't changed much: It's still a big multicultural nation with an active, industrious populace. But climate changes and population pressure means there are food shortages everywhere in the sub-continent.

India is the other major asian power in the game.

In the book, India got much of its grain in exports from the moon. I'm not sure how to reflect this in game (there's no model for food shipments) but I'll come up with something.

Unique Units:
1)
2)


=PanAfrica=

Not much info is given in the book on this new African Mega-state. Apparently, each member of PanAfrica is still an independent political entity, but they have combined into some sort of continental congress for self defense and economic reasons. Not to mention that as a combination, they get a veto on the FN executive council.

unique units:
1) Lancer - one man space fighter. Cheaper to build than the bigger ships of the other FN nations. Not bad as an offensive unit, but not quite as durable as other ships. (possibly limited to orbital space.)
2)


=Brazilian Union=

Following a series of catastrophic economic collapses across South America, somebody had to come in and pick up the pieces. That somebody was the Federated Nations, who brought together a number of failing states into a single administrative district, similar to the North American Directorate.

The Brazilian Union encompases most of S.A., with the exception of Columbia, Venezuela, Suriname, and both Guyanas. Member states remain autonomous, but share a common currency and vote in a continental assembly on matters coming up before the Federated Nations.

Unique Units
1) Space Carrier. Lacks the bombard artillery of other space vessels, but carries smaller space fighters that can operate 'space superiority' missions.
2)


=European Alliance=

(Heinlein descibed a state called 'Mitteleuropa', which seems to me like a combo of the old Warsaw Pact and some sort of Fifth Reich. I'll go with something a bit more in line with recent historical developments...)

Eventually, the EU will evolve into a stable centralized federal government.

Or at least that was the dream... On paper the European Alliance is a single political entity, but it is still weaker than it's individual components. Notorious holdouts like the UK and Switzerland still don't participate, and while other nations pay lip service to the ideals of Unity, they still go pretty much their own way.

Military alliances coexist and overlap certain parts of the EA Charter, so there is a single military force to face down any challengers. While the military is still made up of national contingents, weapons and ranks have been standardized, and over a century of cooperation has yielded an highly cohesive multinational force.

Unique Units
1) EA Patrol Ships. Strong, quick, capable vessels that rule the spacelanes. Most of the time.
2)


=Russian Compact=

Following the failed May Day Coup of 2083, the last vestige of communism was excised from Russia and exiled to the Moon. However, the weakened Russian government quickly broke apart into a multitude of seperate nations, each under the local control of a ganster, military officer, or other warlord. After 30 years of near anarchy, an alliance between Novgorod and Muscovy began a series of military strikes and diplomatic overtures that eventually reformed the broken nation. The new Russian Compact includes most of what was once Russia, though the eastern third of Siberia was lost to Greater China in the interim.

Like metal that has been tempered, the new Russian Compact is stronger than it was before the fire.

Unique Units
1)
2)


=Lunar Authority=
Earth Sponsor: Federated Nations

The Authority is the only recognized government on the moon. The FN set up the Lunar Authority to make sure the moon was never used for military purposes. Initially lunar colonist were scientists and idealists, but member nations often sent "volunteers" to the moon as a permanent way to rid themselves of undesireables.

Following several highly publicised incidents of violence between these "volunteers" during the very early years of colonization, a more formal prison system was set up by the FN and the Lunar Authority, to segregate those who were doing time from those who were doing research.

Since prolonged living at 1/6 G leads to permanent physiological changes, a trip to the moon was in effect a life sentence -- the only way back was through extensive physical rehab, and a ticket on a FN transport ship. The new lunar 'colonists' could afford neither.

The moon became a very popular dumping ground for nations on earth. Violent offenders, fringe groups, political dissidents, and other "volunteers" were all sent to the moon. It was a big open prison -- guards were needed only for transport ships and essential personel. And once the transportees figured out that a moon shot was a one way trip, most stopped trying to escape anyway.

That was four generations ago. Colonists still arrive every month, some dumped to fend for themselves, other sent as prisoners to supply the Authority with a cheap labor pool. An economy has developed, and the moon is now a thriving society with a total population that exceeds 3 million.

The Authority is still nominally in control, though the population of the moon is now too large for the sort of lax government that has been the norm for a century. New factions are emerging, and war will soon be declared...

Unique Units:
1) Yellow Jackets. The Warden's personal bodyguard -- tough defenders.
2) Dragoons. The 'Goons are what passes for police on the moon. They do well against unarmed Lunatics, but once the other factions develop the right weapons...


=Free State=
Earth Sponsor: North American Directorate

A small group of revolutionaries has taken control of one of the largest settlements, Luna City, and declared themselves the "Luna Free State". A mixed bag of political dissidents and native Lunatics (decendents of the early transportees), the Free State is the most independent and least political of the lunar factions. They just want to set up a local government, free from the control of both the FN and the Authority.

While military conquest is not the first item on their agenda, they are preparing to defend themselves against the Authority or anyone else.

Unique Units:


=Hong Kong Luna (HKL)=
Earth Sponsor: Greater China

HKL was one of the earliest colonies, set up by Greater China as a way to finally rid themselves of those pesky capitalists they inherited from the British.

China still takes in interest in HKL, in so much as they keep sending people up to the moon to live there. Not just folks from Hong Kong, HKL is a mixed bag of transportees from Japan, southeast Asia, Australia, and Siberia.

HKL has always considered themselves somewhat separate from the rest of the Lunar Authority, a common perception they are now trying to make a reality.

Unique Units:


=Lunar Soviet=
Earth Sponsor: Brazilian Union

Novy Leningrad was also an early colony, formed when the old Russian state shipped a load of violent communist rebels to the moon following their failed May Day Coup. The Lunar Soviet has recently organized a number of colonies around NovyLen into a new communist state, and is preparing to expand.

Unique Units.


=Etat d'Lune=
Earth Sponsor: PanAfrica

The new "Etat d'Lune" is made up of dissident Quebec nationalists, Algerian rebels, and francophile castaways from Vietnam, Polynesia, Haiti, and all over Africa. Their only common link is the French language, and a tradition of fighting the establishment.

Unique Unit:
1) Legionaire. Of course. Men of all sorts have joined the new French Lunar Legion.
2)


=Gengetsu Mindan=
Earth Sponsor: India

The Crescent Moon Co., or "Gngetsu Mindan" in Japanese [I hope that's how it translates], was a corporate entity set up build scientific labratories and industrial complexes on the moon, back in the days before Greater China made life in Japan a little more difficult. Starting with a solid technological base, and fortified by numerous Japanese "volunteers" sent up later, The Crescent Moon Co. is now a flourishing colony more-or-less affiliated with the Authority, but doing pretty much whatever it has wanted for over 50 years.

CMC stock is not official recognized in the Japanese provinces of Greater China, but still does a brisk trade in the stock markets of America and Europe. India recently agreed to sponsor the CMC, mostly to tick off China.

Unique Units:


=Dark Siders=
Earth Sponsor: none. yet.

The "Dark Siders" are a loose group of escaped prisoners and other malcontents who have fled the reach of the Authority and settled on the craggy surface of the moon's Far Side. Their location means they are out of radio contact with earth, being on the side that faces into space, but the Dark Siders don't care.

What sort of plans the Darksiders are hatching back there is anyone's guess. If they can figure out a way to contact them, there may be some sort of deal made with dormant warlord factions within the Russian Compact.

unique units:


=Botany Bay=
Earth Sponsor: European Alliance

Following the invasion of Darwin and the loss of Northern Australia to Greater China, an unprecedented shipment of transportees was sent up by the Chinese in a period of just 5 months. There were too many for the Authority to take in all at once, so a new colony was founded nearby and built in record time.

The Aussies found themselves in familiar territory, so to speak, dropped off on the far end of nowhere with nothing but their own know-how and will to survive. Half-facetiously, but with an eye to the past, they named their new home Botany Bay, and established a capital called "Over the Rainbow."

Botany Bay has the strongest ties back to earth, with an application in the works to join Free Australia as a special territory. The EA is acting as their sponsor, for the moment, because of a pre-existing military pact with Free Australia.

Unique Units:



I'll fill in the details (remaining UU, attributes, etc.) as I can think them up. ;P
 
Technologies and the Tech Tree will depend on available resources and units.

Some broad ideas:

Lunar ceramics
more detailed fission and fusion techs
several grades of computer techs
new types of rocket propulsion
new types of lasers/particle beams

More on this topic as I can get around to it.
 
last updated: 11 June 2002

Currently Civ3 supports 22 resources; I might stick with that number but go with a new distribution: eight strategic resources, four luxuries, and eight+two bonus resources.

That distribution may change -- we'll see how things fall out.


Strategic:
Aluminum and/or Titanium
Iron and/or Steel
Petroleum
Uranium
Mono-H
He-3
?

Monatomic Hydrogen and Helium-3 are deposited on the moon by solar winds. They are an example of resources available there that aren't readily available on earth.

I'm listing both Iron and Steel because while there is a lot of iron to be had on the moon, there is no carbon to make steel. Lower gravity+no steel=cast iron as a viable building material? maybe. The Eifel tower is cast iron, isn't it? Oil is more than just gasoline; petroleum is the base for many plastics and other compounds. It will still be a vital resource even after we replace internal combustion engines.


Luxuries:
Right now I'm thinking of more Modern luxuries:
- Pharmacuticals
- Video
- Music
-

anything else?


bonus resources:
I'm reserving two bonus resources for special applications. The other eight could be almost anything.

Space bonus:
Comm.Satellites
Orbital Habitats

Moon Bonus:?
Earth Bonus:?
What would be the equivalents of Cattle, Wheat, Game, and Gold?
I'll throw some ideas out and we'll see if any stick: Factory Installations, Wildlife Preserves (on earth), Crashed Spaceships (on moon), Spaceports?
 
Eventually this will be the longest message of all, but things are still under development.

I'm thinking of two separate unit sets, one for the earth and one for the moon, with two different tech trees. While you can trade techs back and forth, you can only build unit types from your set -- units that work great on the moon may not be the best choice for earthside duty.

Some Unit Ideas:

Drill Gunner
heavy infantry
Men are trained to use heavy lasers to dig new tunnels and carve up moon rock into usuable chunks. Since it's 1/6 G, these monster drill are much heavier than one man could handle on earth. What happens when he points his drill at a ship, or a person? Crispy Fries.

Rover
Basic lunar scout unit. Same as the Apollo model.

Speargunner
Compressed air would be much more powerful on the moon than gunpowder -- no atmosphere, no oxygen. A simple speargun would work well, don't you think?

BBR Launcher
Compressed air, take 2. The moon isn't exactly covered in metal, so ceramics and glass are an obvious alternate. Take a glass cylinder, fill it with compressed air, shoot it at an opponent so it shatters and tears his space suit. The grunts call it a 'beer bottle rocket'.
 
This is a placeholder for other misc. ideas, in case I need room later and don't want things to get lost on some other page down around post #30 or so.

Any comments on what I've posted so far -- reply here or via email, your pick.

Thanks in advance.
 
This sounds like a cool mod... One question, could you use the unused pine and snow capped mountains as special visual effects (like the scenario X-Com from CIV2 Gold)... For instance change the single pine graphic to something like the Apollo lander or something. It wouldn't give you any bonuses just eye-candy... although on second thought you could do the same thing with a bonus resource without and bonuses... just a thought.
 
my opinions,

make the people eat 3 or 4 supplies than 2 to force
slow painfully expansion on the low resourse moon.
forcing them to setup greenhouses before expanding :lol:

the moon cannot support life with human assistance....
therefore the colonist will have to build habital, greenhouse,
pressurized mining/factories BEFORE the moon is productive.
provide many strategic resource and other highly productive resourse
on moon to make it interesting.

increase the productive of Earth to balance the importants of Earth!
even if Earth is hit by a nuclear winter,
Earth will still be MORE friendly to live than moon (no air, no food)
Only Mars can be terraform to support life as well as Earth.

and reduce culture, it doesn't quite work in space does it?


- - - - -


Give russia a cheap "GoldenEye". (give it a better name :p )
they actually DID build something like it.
it is a "fire once only" range weapon.
basically overheat itself to release a very powerful
laser beam that can damage anything (not kill).

given the defensive natural of the european. (pls avoid using "USE")
maybe give them a huge stationary gun (aka GRAND CANNON) :lol:
and allow it to kill units. That would kick some butt!

I don't think you should provide 'privateer' for any unit.
it is 'space', don't expect a spaceship can be launch without being spotted.
the American should have a sneakly unit. maybe invisible?

The Islamic Power is missing here....
I don't see why not that is so, considering
many state are very technologically advanced.

For a sense of irony... maybe you can call "Greater china".....
"Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" or "Chinese CPS"
which is what japan called it when they invaded in WW2. :lol:
 
I've edited the posts at the top of the thread to take into account some of your suggestions. Most noteably, the "United States of Europe" is now the "European Alliance".

In the terrain post, I also gave some proposed food/shield/trade values for the different terrain types. I may add some shields to lunar terrain, or maybe not, we'll see. It will be a long time before I can start playtesting things.

Additionally, we'll see how the current factions strike people before I make any civ assignments. I sort of took the earth factions strait from a book, but the lunatic factions are new. (Heinlein's book only includes two lunar factions -- the Authority and the Luna Free State)

My gut reaction, after writing and re-reading all that stuff, is that the Russian Compact might be traded out for some other civ, particularly with the Lunar Soviet already in the game. Other candidates (who should be out, and who to replace them) can be put forward at this time.
 
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