TJ01: Famous Five

This will be a 5CC with a twist, the only permissible victory (for us) is 100K culture achieved by each of our 5 cities reaching 20K on the same turn! For the AI all victories are possible.

Inspiration: playing "MB1: 20K double Whammy", reading tales of RBCiv Epic 29 "The Five Pillars" (Emperor, 5CC with Spaceship as target victory) and Bamspeedy's "100K with a 5CC" (Chieftain).

Map: Large, Continents, 80% Water
Climate: Warm & Wet
Geology: Rocky
Barbarians: None
Opponents: 7 random
Civ: Celts
Difficulty: Regent (but players will need to be comfortable at deity)
Victory: 20K in 5 cities to give 100K total

1.27

The Start


The save is > here <

Rules
I'd like to keep this a strict 24/48 - if you haven't posted a "Got it" by the end of the 24hr period then the next player is automatically up.
If you post a "Got it" and 48 hours pass without you posting anything then the next player is to take the save and play.
If you post a "Got it" and then have a RL emergency or simply find you can't complete your turn in time then please try and post a message to that effect ASAP in order that an extension may be granted or the next player can pick up and carry on.
Players may arrange to swap turns with the preceding or succeeding player or simply request a skip if they are unable to play.
These rules are simply common courtesy for you and your fellow players. Please don't leave the team hanging around waiting for you.

Exploits
Preferably we will play by the RBCiv "Honourable Tactics". Circumstances always alter cases so if a situation arises that requires 'Dastardly Tactics' then the player should use his best judgement or seek approval from his fellow players.

Roster
a space oddity
Karasu
Yndy --> Up
Northern Pike
TedJackson
mad-bax


Ted

Although the level is Regent this isn't going to be an easy ride and players will need to be comfortable playing at Deity. We have to reach our 100K target while preventing the AI from winning in any other manner. We need to choose the game settings with care or we'll be walking home with our heads in a basket Here are my initial thoughts on what would work.

Map: Large Pangaea - large to slow tech pace and Pangaea to avoid inaccessible resources.

Climate & Geology: Open for discussion - remember that we want the tech pace to be slow in order to be able to stay in the game during the late Medieval/early Industrial eras so warm & wet won't be helpful.

Traits: Some traits are going to be pretty worthless in this game. I can see no benefit at all from the Commercial or Industrious traits. Religious would seem to be of limited value as I we won't be building a lot of temples or switching Governments very often and we can apply a similar argument to Scientific although the free tech on new era might be handy.

This leaves Militaristic and Expansionist. I think Expansionist is essential for Goody Hut popping to ensure that we attain an early tech lead and Militaristic would give us a better chance of generating Leaders.

If we accept the above reasoning then we have the choice of Mongolia, Scandinavia or Zululand. The choice will probably come down which will trigger their Golden Age at the best time. This would seem to make the Zulu unattractive leaving us with a choice of Middle Ages (Mongolia) or Industrial Age (Scandinavia)

Number of opponents: Probably 7 - more would increase the tech pace, less wouldn't make it enough of a challenge.

Opponents: Random, hand-picked or a mixture? - I'd prefer not to have another expansionist AI.

Barb Setting: TBD - sedentary, roaming, restless (personally I dislike barbs in any shape or form but without goody huts this game is a non-starter)

Game Plan:
Executive Summary
Use our expansionist trait to secure an early tech lead then capitalise on our militaristic trait to beat the rest of the world to a pulp and reap the rewards

Detailed Plan
To be prepared...


Ted

I'm first in the rotation *again*?! If you guys aren't careful I'm gonna start having ideas.

Other ideas on the strat:
We need to explore the immiate surroundings more than I usually do, but contact the others early too. All the more reason for expansionist, I guess. City location is of the essence. We have to come up with an interesting pattern to make the most of a close FP. I'll think about that one some more.

Actually,

with only 5 cities we won't have to worry about a FP as we won't get the opportunity to build one.


Ted

Hi all. I'm just checking in.
I'd definitely go with a militaristic civ for generating leaders. I have no opinion whatever of barbs.

I have to say I think pangea could make our life difficult. With continents or islands tech pace will be slower as contacts will not be made until navigation. Since we are limited to 5 cities there will always be fodder on our continent for leader generation. But hey, why make it easy?

I'm not going to play until my total number of SG's reduces. I am sure that 2 will finish this week.

Ted: I know you are being courteous in putting yourself last on the roster, but please put me last if you don't mind.

This'll be a lot of fun.

Of course... Let's call it Monday morning.

edit: this was meant as a reply for Ted, on the 'no FP' remark.

Originally posted by mad-bax
I have to say I think pangea could make our life difficult. With continents or islands tech pace will be slower as contacts will not be made until navigation. Since we are limited to 5 cities there will always be fodder on our continent for leader generation. But hey, why make it easy?

Click to expand...

Having never attempted anything like this before I don't know if pangaea is our best shot. I just wanted to avoid a "Where's the Coal? What... on an island surrounded by Muskets or Rifles" situation

Originally posted by mad-bax
Ted: I know you are being courteous in putting yourself last on the roster, but please put me last if you don't mind.

Click to expand...

Done.

Originally posted by mad-bax
This'll be a lot of fun.

Click to expand...

I hope so. I think it will be a real challenge.


Ted

I'll try to keep an eye on this. I'd play, but I'm only playing on regent, so it'd be too hard for me...

You got me interested and I looked over Bamspeedy’s game. It was very nice but unfortunately too ‘extreme’ for my taste. I would also hate those tens of turns when you only wait the culture to accumulate. Good luck and fish for leaders.

Originally posted by Yndy
I would also hate those tens of turns when you only wait the culture to accumulate. Good luck and fish for leaders.

Click to expand...

I think there will be enough action to keep you amused. Have a look at MB1: 20K double whammy for an idea of how much war you can have in a "Culture" game


Ted

Indeed.
However, with five cities only we will have to be more careful with our warring, as the army support cost will be a factor throughout the whole game (sigh... I liked *so much* those 150 tanks in MB1...)

------ Other thoughts.

I'd go with a 'light' barb setting. We don't want another wandering barb to kill our prebuild on the Pyramids -in this game, that would really hurt.

Pangea vs Continents: this is tough.
It may not be all that difference, however: with 5CC, a key resource can be too far away even if it is in our continent. We would have to use colonies anyway; on a Pangea map we would have easier access by land, but the same would hold for all other civs.
And a continents map would slow down the tech pace, as mad-bax says.

The civ? I agree on exp - mil.
IIRC, both the Keshik and Berserk come in the MA.
Right now, I have a slight preference on the mobility of the K compared to the amphibious attack of the B, but I can easily change my mind.

I agree, it will only get tedious after it has been very very difficult, Yndy. I would very much like to have you aboard. We can use some very good players.

You were actually right Ted. And I’ve never played with a space oddity or any other kind of oddity actually .

OK, I’m game but only because of the quote below:

Originally posted by mad-bax
Personally, I rarely think this is a good move. My preference is to always |||| first, which allows you to ||| later. It's more efficent that way I find. However the rest of the turn was truly inspired.

Click to expand...

Now that’s serious action. I want some of that too .

Welcome aboard Yndy,

you'll just have to learn to ignore mad-bax in his manic phase (he needs his medication upping )


Ted

This isn't a signup, but as the architect of Epic 29, here's some of my thoughts:

You must-must-must have tech go as slow as possible. Whatever map you pick, go with 20% land. Land size is extremely important in determining how fast tech goes. I would definitely suggest not a pangaea, and you may even want an archipelago. Picking your opponents to not be scientific will also help - one of the best ways to lose out on middle ages wonders is to have Feudalism pop in for free while you're trying to complete the Great Library.

Religious is quite possibly the best civ trait. It flat-out gets you to victory sooner with the anarchy reduction. Also, don't underestimate the cheaper buildings. You can whip a 30-shield temple far sooner than a 60-shield one, and that 80 shields saved on the cathedrals can easily make the difference between landing or missing a wonder.

I would strongly suggest no barbarians at all, not even huts. Especially on large maps, huts tend to shoot the game through the ancient age tech tree very quickly, which you don't want.

Without huts, of course you don't want an Expansionist civ. I picked Arabia for Epic 29 based on the theme and the Religious trait, not this.

Militaristic is probably the second-best trait, and prepare for a good amount of middle-ages warring for Great Leaders. If you pick the Aztecs, you also get the pseudo-expansionist Jaguars anyway.

If you pick a large map, I might suggest Scientific instead of militaristic. Large maps will offer enough targets for even a non-militaristic civ to get some leaders, and the free scientific techs (especially if your opponents aren't scientific) go a long way towards keeping your economy competitive.

Finally, remember that a true 100K cultural victory requires having double the culture of any other civ. This will be just about impossible on a large map, and difficult on a small, without just effectively conquering your way to victory anyway and sandbagging until the culture triggers.

Great suggestion, T-Hawk.

Archipelago makes me wonder... 5CC with each city on a different island?

Yndy, glad to have you in

Originally posted by Karasu
Archipelago makes me wonder... 5CC with each city on a different island?

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Something for KAR1 perhaps?

Originally posted by T-hawk
This isn't a signup, but as the architect of Epic 29, here's some of my thoughts:

Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the trouble to post T-hawk. Some of my ideas were way off-base it seems

One quick question though. How do I make a map that's only 20% land?

@All
OK, which way shall we go on this?

I like the idea of a large map, Archipelago, no barbs and a Mil/Rel Civ. I'm even tempted to try Karasu's one city per island idea.

Let me know your thoughts and preferences.


Ted

We can't do 100K with 1 city per island since we would have to get to map making before founding our second city, and we would have to do our own research.

I think the map editor allows you to select 80% water coverage as an option.

I would not go for Islands as we will definitely be short of resources and luxes. I'd rather a continents map, with lots of jungle (so long as we don't start in it). But agian, why make it easy? I've learned a lesson from my games that if you set everything in the most advantageous way for a particular objective then it makes it too easy. All three of my games were too easy.

I'd say large continents, 8 rivals and a non-coastal start.

Originally posted by mad-bax
We can't do 100K with 1 city per island since we would have to get to map making before founding our second city, and we would have to do our own research.

I think the map editor allows you to select 80% water coverage as an option.

Click to expand...

I obviously forgot to put my thinking hat on today

Originally posted by mad-bax
I would not go for Islands as we will definitely be short of resources and luxes. I'd rather a continents map, with lots of jungle (so long as we don't start in it). But agian, why make it easy? I've learned a lesson from my games that if you set everything in the most advantageous way for a particular objective then it makes it too easy. All three of my games were too easy.

I'd say large continents, 8 rivals and a non-coastal start.

Click to expand...

I can live with those MB.

I too am worried about getting the difficulty level right, especially as I've played in games with everyone on the roster and have a high regard for their level of competence


Ted