RBC9 - Hittite Charioteers

The SG interest continues to run high, and there were enough interested
for one more, so here is the 'Hittite Charioteer' SG. The issue is
clear - how effective are the expensive 3-man chariots? Some claim they're
amongst the worst new UU, while others think they're quite good. The Hittites
are expansionist and commercial.

We're going to push the issue a little further, adding two variant rules.
- Build almost no slow military units! No warrs, archers, spears, pikes, etc.
This is a game to be decided by 3-man chariots, Knights, and Cavalry!
Slow defensive units may be built but may never leave the city they're built in.
- Do your best not to be at peace more than 20 turns, ever
Also, our wars should be brief, preferably not more than 20 turns as well.

We get one 'style point' for every strongest fast unit in a war:
3-man Chariots, Ancient Cav, Knights, Cavalry, Tanks, Mech Inf and Modern Armor.
(If the game ends before the unit arrives, that counts too)

In other words, this will be a "Mounted Oscillating War" game!
For the original game with this concept, see our MOW Ottoman game:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45322

* It's suggested that The Wheel be the first tech researched, asap.
* It's suggested we build or capture the Statue of Zeus

I've solo tested this game and have won on Emperor diff, in 1365 before I even
got cavalry. So while there are some names I don't recognize, I'm going to pump
this puppy up to Demigod difficulty.

Standard size map, pangaea 60/40, 5 billion, temperate and normal. Because we
aren't allowed warriors or archers, the barbs are sedentary. Seven foes, all random
except the Ottomans (our first MOW civ).
I will play out until The Wheel shows up, to confirm the game isn't broken with
no horses and a requirement of no slow units BTW, the Hittites do NOT ever
build horses, so there is no need to avoid HBR tech. 3-man updates to Knights.

If anyone is not familiar with them, please look over the "RBCiv" Exploits and Tactics page.
This will be a stricly no-exploit game, and do not purposefully trash our rep.

http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/erules.html
http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/etactics.html

Roster: Not finalized yet, but tentatively I'm aiming at folks who requested
a RB SG that ended up being full. These are:

Charis
Elvis
Dwip
6thGenTexan
Hotrod
Yom

Please confirm if you're interested, and (Elvis and Yom) that you think you can handle Demigod ok.

Starting position:



Charis

Charisilus (aka 'Silly Charis') comes to power after seizing upon an idea at the race track.
So impressed is he by speed and this chap he men named Ben Hur,
he has a vision of Charioteering hit way to glory! So it begins...

4000 Looks like a good spot, let's settle.
3950 Already a village wants to join our cause! Tarsus appears, on a river
although one step off coast.
3600 Another village! Ugarit. Alas this puppy is in the middle of the desert.
3400 Ceremonial Burial from a hut. Then Bronze Working from another hut.
The land is looking nice and flat, which will be good if we do find horses.
3300 Skilled warrior from a hut. (Ew!! Slow unit! Run to town boy!)
We meet Mongols, then two turns later, Sumerians. Mongols have WC and Mysticism,
and lack Alphabet. Sumerians have WC and lack Alpha and CB.
CB to Sumerians for WC+10g. Alpha+12g for Myst with Mongols.
3000 - Happy nation list: French, Koreans, Mongols, Hittites, Sumerians, Aztecs,
Ottomans and Arabs. We're actually top in score and ok in power too.
2950 - Arabs are met, up Masonry and down Alpha/Wheel/Myst. Wheel gets Masonry+35g.
HBR from a hut. (Glad we're Hittite, not Egypt ;P ) But the best news is...
We have horses right on a hill by Hattusas!
Also, there is an extra pair between Tarsus and Ugarit, and there is Ivory to NW.
2850 - Ottomans are met, at tech parity. Writing from a hut.
2750 - We meet the Aztecs, who are up Iron but down 4. We've half-researched it,
but get it and 35g now for four cheap techs. The huts are good to us again this
round, getting Literature then a settler (FAR from home)
Hmmm.... I see no iron 8-\ Mongols and Sumerians nearby have some.
2670 - Aztecs and Sumerians start the Pyramids. Our horses are connected.
Mathematics from a hut. (Have I mentioned recently that Expansionsists rock?!)
2630 - We meet the French, the last civ. She's in the stone ages on tech.
2590 - Our brave settler hits a hut, and is happy to receive a skilled escort.
2550 - With all civs now seen, we're in fourth place, not bad for this year, in Demigod.
The Sumerians, Aztecs, and Mongols are our main rivals.



Thus ends the reign of Charisilus. Our first Chariot is now in production.
Our biggest need now is expansion, more cities. We had a nice boost but avg food
has slowed us down. Probably crank a few chariots while Hattursus grows then get
a few settlers out. One thing to keep in mind - Chariots can only enter mtns or
jungle with roads in place.

Roster: (players please confirm or correct me)
Charis
Elvis <-- UP
Dwip <-- On deck
6thGenTexan
hotrod
Yom

Save file

Good luck,
Charis

Good luck Elvis -- good to get some sleep before leading the Hittites

10 turns is right, although as this is only the second turn if you need 15ish to feel like you did something, that's fine this turn.

You'll do fine -- avoid riots, watch for 2-fer trades, manage your shields, and expand our empire

Charis

After still feeling the effects of the Sirian Infantry game I am anxious to get into an Anti-Infantry Game.

Oh wait Inf2 was a full year ago...

Anyway bring it on

Just to recap: You got two cities, one settler, six techs and two warriors from huts?!?



That's...disgusting...

Have fun! I'll be lurking with interest to see how the 3-man chariots will do!

-Kylearan

Not too shabby eh?! Actually, disgusting is right -- I've never had any such collection of good stuff before. Being expansionist meant I would never get military units of course, and being behind in cities helped.

I actually had one previous game before this -- trying to confirm the availabilility of horses, and got the following:
- free village in 3900BC (next to wheat even)
- CB, settler, WC, another village (!), Mysticism, all by around 3000. And we had a *huge* area all to ourselves, no contacts for miles and miles, but... no horses on the entire continent. A bust.

I wonder if they tweaked the odds a bit for conquests???
Keep in mind I made like 6-8 scouts and built nothing else, not a single warr/archer/spear.

Charis

Good job, Elvis. Hattusha is in a nice spot, we'll want a temple there asap. It took me quite a while to see where Haran was, our color is similar to Sumerians and that city is way out in right field! I hope the Sumerians stay friendly for a while as Haran is indefensible. We'll want another city to try to hook it up to our
empire culturally, and we'll also want to snag that double ivory site SOON. Good expanding, hopefully our next leaders can keep up the settling.

(EDIT -- shoot, I should have been more clear. That settler was *NOT* heading out to found way out there, rather he was coming HOME after being popped from a very distant hut. I should have said that explicitly.)

Charis
Elvis
Dwip <-- UP
6thGenTexan <-- On deck
hotrod
Yom

Originally posted by Charis
(Have I mentioned recently that Expansionsists rock?!)

Click to expand...

I'll second that.

6gntxn

(Have I mentioned recently that Expansionsists rock?!)

Click to expand...

Thirded. Sheesh.

And got it.

Preturn note: Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe standard procedure is to zip our .sav files for upload, yes? Something about the possibility of getting a corrupted save being much lower that way. Anyway.

[0] 1910 BC - And it came to pass in those days that the Hittites were ruled by Chief Dwip. And the people were greatly angry, for they had heard tales of Dwip the Mongol and his riots. But Chief Dwip ordered that a large golden rabbit be erected in front of the palace, and the people gazed upon it and were contented.

And there was much familiarization. And...wow. We sure are Being All We Can Be in the tech race. Not so much in the land race, though. We need settlers in a bad way, to connect up Ugarit (Haran if we're lucky) and get the ivory. The ivory would be ideal - Statue of Zeus is NICE.

[1] 1870 BC -

[2] 1830 BC - Tarsus TMC->TMC.

[3] 1790 BC - Our workers are, for some reason, roading off into the middle of nowhere, so far as I can tell. That ends, and I recall them from Ugarit to go improve our core.

[4] 1750 BC - Hattusas Settler->Settler.

Philosophy comes in. No free tech. Hrm. Check diplo, and the Mongols have Map Making, the Ottos have that and Construction, and the Aztecs have MM as well. There is absolutely no way we're ever going to get Construction from the Ottos, but I go ahead and trade Polytheism and 100 gold to the Aztecs for MM. Too, I start 50 turning Monarchy. It's likely we'll get it before then from trade, but at 2 gold/turn, it works out ok.

[5] 1725 BC -

[6] 1700 BC - Well, that sucked.



[7] 1675 BC -

[8] 1650 BC - Tyrana founded on the river between Hattusas and Ugarit.

[9] 1625 BC -

[10] 1600 BC - Hattusas Settler->Settler, Tarsus TMC->TMC, Hattusha Worker->Warrior. Aztecs are building Zeus. The Sumerians settle on our ivory. Doh!

Most of the units are still drivable, including our new TMC and settler.

Among other things, we're losing the land grab in harsh, harsh ways. I'm not sure what exactly to do about that. We are...weak. Sure, we're a leader in the tech race, but we're low on land, and our military is somewhere beyond pathetic. Dunno.

Save the Hittites!

Charis
Elvis
Dwip <--- Chased out of town by crazed smokers
6thGenTexan <--- UP
Hotrod <--- On deck
Yom

I'll need to be bumped down in the roster. I've got one more weekend of company keeping me from playing unitl Tuesday.

6gntxn

Ouch!! When I said Haran was indefensible I didn't think THAT would happen

Looks at the save file... good grief! Sumeria is a monster! Their culture is huge, large number of cities, good tech, ouch.

Isin stole the dual ivory spot??? Double ouch!

We have just five cities, two rax and one granary, and zero temples. They're somewhat spread out. Ugarit will grow in 13 turns and when it does it will *instantly* revert back in size as there is *zero* additional food for the next citizen. (That may be why the workers were around Ugarit - an irrigation chain is needed there) If the settler founds a city right between
Tyrana and Ugarit (in the desert 2 squares from Ugarit) that will save that city and connect it to our borders, but what ugly cities. Here's a better idea - found the city right on the horse SE of Ugarit.

I don't think we can out grow these guys... it's time to remember what this game is about -- 3-man chariots!
It is NOT a game of slow catch up and peaceful expansion, its Mounted Oscillating War, and we're almost overdue!

In fact, in my view we're just 2-4 chariots away from our first war!
On the round we declare war our forces will be ready, 3-4 chariots
in the neutral forest outside Isin, and 3-4 in the forest outside Bad-tibirra. Declare, capture both cities that turn. Then depending on how you feel, go after Agade. Let their forces come and choose your terrain carefully. We decide when and where to attack, not the slow Enkidu's. Those 2-3 cities and whatever tech or benefit we get for peace, is all we need for a nice push. Over the next 20 turns we build more rax, 4-6 more chariots and repeat against either the Sumerians or any other civ that has poached our lands.

*From the point we get our first chariot on, there should never be more than a 20 turn lapse of peace in our nation!*

The first chariot arrive on turn one of Elvis, and he and Dwip have gone, so 6thGenTexan must declare war almost immediately. (If need be, since there was some confusion on this need for war, take several turns - gather ALL chariots into those two attack positions, and then you must declare. Fortunately there is
no ongoing treaty with Sumeria. Actually, there is now an archer-settler pair in our lands. If he settles, raze that city as well. If he does not and keeps walking forward, trail him with one chariot and kill them the turn we declare war.

Looking more closely, their ivory city is size 1 and likely only has the original escort single defender. It will be razed, needing 1-2 chariots. Bad-T is size 3 and if we can take it on first turn, it will be a needed capture, not a raze. So if split is uneven, put more here. You could launch the attack in two turns actually, since no settler or chariot is due for quite a while. (One at ivory, one at archer-settler, two at Bad-T) The good news is that this will trigger our GA, and we'll get reinforcements from our two main cities at a good rate. Also, take that existing settler and head him over even now toward that horse square. We can pull irrigation to Ugarit easily from there, and it will make a nice point city.

Our front will very quickly be just past Ugarit and Bad-tibira, perhaps Agade -- at the freshly founded horse city (Aleppo is next on list I think?) His units are slow, after we capture/raze the first few cities, even if we lost most our units doing it, they won't be able to raze a counter force within 8-10 turns. If going poorly the war will be over on 6thGen's turn. If it goes well our next leader may strike out at Agade or Lagdash.

Fear not, Charioteers!
Charis

PS in EDIT - Ah, hotrod, the falls upon you! Don't let it concern you that our army is only four units strong... attack!!

(PS2 at Dwip - yes, zips are preferred)

Okay I've got it but will not play until tomorrow.

RBC9:

1600 BC (0): Our tech lead is very nice, only down Construction to the Ottomans. There is a worker for sale in Korea. Moving 3 mans out of cities creates a happiness issue. Up lux to 30%. We could really use a lux or some temples. Want to hit that Settler soonish. We are short on units for a war . Move a 3-man to the forest near the archer/settler pair 2 more come from the town of Tarsus, a settler moves East from the capital and a 3-man heads to the ivory town. The big question is is tech for a worker worth it. I buy the Korean worker for Polytheism he kicked in his last 10 gold.

INBT: Korea completed the Colossus.

1575 BC (1): Okay here goes. I declare on the Summarians and the whole game rests on how successful this battle goes. NO pressure right ! 1/2 at Bad-Tibra and we enter our Golden Age! Bad news is Summaria is in theirs now too. Sweet there was a settler in the city. What gives it was at size 3 or so I thought and was auto razed That stinks. Isin was destroyed and the ivory is now open for us to grab. Attack the archer in the desert and our 3-man dies. With our loses I swap the capital to a much needed 3-man.

1550 BC (2): Whack the wounded archer/settler pair and pickup another pair of workers. Moving the ivory 3-man east.

1525 BC (3): More movement. Settler is in place at the B-T site with a 3-man cover.

INBT: Monty, sensing weakness demands Lit I decline and he declares. Now Arabia demands Philo. I give it fearing a dogpile.

1500 BC (4): Hattusas builds a 3-man starts a settler to head North toward ivory. Found Aleppo on the B-T site. Starts a warrior so I can send the 3-man out sooner than later. MM Tarsus to pickup a 3-man 1 turn sooner.

INBT: Summerians come begging for Peace and will give up 2 cities I have no idea where they are but decline. Want to grab another city or 2 first! :flamedevil:

1475 BC (5): Tarsus completed a 3-man. starts another. Tyrana a warrior starts a temple. Contemplated a cat but they are slow and I can't recall if they can be moved or not. Spot a Summarian Sword. Whoops should've waited for reinforcments.

INBT: Sumerians complete the pyramids in Ur. They also kill a 3-man with a sword, he will die next turn. Aztecs swapped to Temple of Artemis.

1450 BC (6): kill the sword but spot a small stack of 2 swords and 1 archer approaching from outside Lagash. We have 3 3-mans in the area. Sumeria will almost give up Agade. Really want Lagash first before Peace.

1425 BC (7): Kill a sword and an archer but leave a redlined 3-man out on a nearby hill.

1400 BC (8): Retreat my 2 remaining 3-mans. Settler from the capital heads north to the ivory. Hattusas starts onther settler.

1375 BC (9): Oracle is completed by Ottomans. More movement 3-man are resting. Move one out to cover our slaves bringing water to Ugarit. Currency is now known by Ottomans but can't afford it. Possible 2-fer with construction but we can't afford currency and don't need ducts quite yet.

INBT: Mongols demand Lit are close by so I cave. Glad this isn't the defiant game. Lots of new Wonders started. Sumerians start a Mosoleum and temple of Artemis. At least they have 2 cities stuck on wonders.

1350 BC (10): Kill 2 more Sumarian units. There are 3 outside of Aleppo. There is a sword approaching. We can whip the Hattusha temple next turn. Irrigation towards Ugarite is progressing. There is a settler ready to settle in the forest near the ivory. I would settle there to best use the land. In case you were wondering the 3 3-man are our entire offensive force.

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads6/RBC9_1350BC.zip

*That's* what I'm talkin' 'bout!

Very well done! I thought we could do that, just didn't think it would be quite THAT effective. Any peacenik lurkers should note just how few units you need to pull off a successful war. The KEY is having an exit strategy! Sumeria is in their Golden Age, with iron. Expect the units to not slow down, but come at much at a higher rate than we can build chariots. Also, we're at war with Aztecs with zero defense and some exposed workers. Those turns went great, but now be wary, VERY wary!

We need to grab the 'horse' tile to consolidate Aleppo and Ugarit, so a settler is a need for us too - I'm glad you may one for the incense however.

It's kinda sick how many temple's we're working on atm, but there are good reasons for most of them. Pick GOOD battles next, like not on a hill. If we can do a tad more damage and get Haran or Agade that's all we can hope for, but even if not it was a success.

Keep in mind too - Mounted Oscillating war means no more than 20 turns of peace, so each time a peace is made we're already thinking about the next war and who it will be against.

Charis <--- UP
Elvis
Dwip
6thGenTexan
Hotrod
Yom <--- On deck (are you around???)

Couple things:

We have no culture. 1 temple can be whipped next turn. Another will pull in much needed food for Ugarit and the other was to fight a losing culture war with Sumeria.

We do have 1 elite 3-man.

Yep the Aztecs will be coming soonish they are far away but not that far. Perhaps send a scout to scout their arrival.

Currency and Construction are out we are 30 some odd turns from Monarchy.

The one settler is grabbing Ivory and needs cover soonish.

I had been sending the settler to the Eastern Horses but the Sumerian city was autorazed. Still not sure why.

Good Luck!

My vote: Mongols

Yeah I'm around, you just started the SG the day I went to D.C. for the weekend. We definitely need to go for the Sumerians though, before they become a monster, and because they are much closer. Any Mongol land captured will not be useful, even after an FP (as it works in conquests).

Also, am I up or on deck? If I'm up, I can't play until tomorrow afternoon/evening.

Hotrod, yes the lack of culture is bad, so those temples will be good in the long run. Also, I have to guess that if it was size 3 and you bagged a settler than it just finished the settler the turn you attacked (but didn't notice).

As far as what civ next, we have 20 turns+ to decide, and they might well decide for us. A scout towards Aztecs on mtn would
be good, since those jaggies can move.

Yom, hi! Good to hear back from you. I hope your trip went well
As I reread 6thGen's post, this is first round and he was asking a swap not a skip, so here's the new roster lineup:

Charis <-- On deck unless Yom wants to slip in (EDIT)
Elvis
Dwip
Hotrod
Yom <--- Skipped by request this round (EDIT)
6thGenTexan <--- UP

(Since we're first round Yom, if you want to take it after 6thGen, let me know)

Thanks,
Charis

I can't play until tomorrow night, so please skip me.