Skill-dorados

An observatory on a lake... Hmm...


Not sure if this is a change with the patch, but I found today that Uluru doesn't count as a mountain for the purposes of Macchu Picchu at least (possibly because MP requires a mountain it can alter graphically?).
 
Even if you can't knock them out as soon as they get it, you can keep up the pressure or team up and take them down a peg when it is feasible. One player cannot survive on his continent against two or three players teaming against him in the long run. If you get knocked out by a skilldorado player before an effective group attack can be orchestrated you've not been focussing on your army enough though, or your fellow players and yourself are not forming an effective strategy of defence until you can attack. You can always say benefit of hindsight and stuff, but if someone gets a top quality natural wonder or start, you've got to be prepared to go more military focussed early.

I'm not saying it's not difficult, but there are natural balances like that built in. If you focus on taking out the runaway, you can take out the runaway most of the time.

True, agree in all that, but that's not my point. The player being attacked will be so totally set back (even if surviving) that it severely unbalances the game in a totally unfair way. In a non NQ-game he will probably just quit and unbalance things even further.

You come to play a MP game, and to invest alot of hours of it. Then you get slaughtered because your closest neighbour finds the Eldorado? He don't even have to settle next to it to reap off its benefits. He just gets those 500 (and that's alot on quick speed).

You might manage to save one of your cities at best, if others helps you, but you will be set so far behind that it's not funny, especially when happening in this manner, because of a NW giving away money the way a cheat code for money would.

It's especially teh Eldorado I don't like. The other super NW; the FoY at least has more long term benefits, not that instantly money that an aggressive player of course uses for instant army upgrades (most commonly composite bows).
 
I said nothing about bad starts! I simply said good starts can be nullfied. If you have a bad start, you are still screwed but at least you can help screw the better guy, or play smart let them weaken each other then pounce.

I've found in all the multiplayer games i play that NW's do give you a significant advantage, however that advantage does mean you get ganked. You can be left out of trades etc, just to stop you from growing more. I had one game where a friend of mine settled FOY as spain in like 30 turns. Me and the other guy on our continent declared war on him instantly. Constantly pressuring him with units, he couldn't expand and make use of that happiness. He lost the FOY city and it got razed as soon as catapults came in for the both of us.

Clearly multiplayer can be a very different game depending on who you're playing with and clearly me and my friends play quite differently to a lot of people. I'm more than happy with the current NW's though, i think it makes for some great gameplay :D



Even if you can't knock them out as soon as they get it, you can keep up the pressure or team up and take them down a peg when it is feasible. One player cannot survive on his continent against two or three players teaming against him in the long run. If you get knocked out by a skilldorado player before an effective group attack can be orchestrated you've not been focussing on your army enough though, or your fellow players and yourself are not forming an effective strategy of defence until you can attack. You can always say benefit of hindsight and stuff, but if someone gets a top quality natural wonder or start, you've got to be prepared to go more military focussed early.

I'm not saying it's not difficult, but there are natural balances like that built in. If you focus on taking out the runaway, you can take out the runaway most of the time.

And how did that game ended if I might ask?

For me (and this happens ALL the time) I don't generally get much out of natural wonders because I try to keep games to peaceful science/culture, and every single time that I see a wonder, it is about a tile outside of a city-state's beginning borders. What is that?! Does this happen to other people too?

EDIT: This was completely off topic. Sorry...

To me it does. Last time I played as Spain I used a general to get the fountain of youth from a CS.
 
And how did that game ended if I might ask?

The guy we DOW'd got knocked out by the renaissance, then our alliance broke down and we duked it out for the continent. I ended up losing XD The other two guys new of the FOY in our lands by this time so they were settling rampantly alongside one of our coasts to get to it. A kind of stand off was called on settling for it when everyone was quite close though and they all entered a culture race to grab it through border expansion.

One of the other continents dudes grabbde it in the end, but quite late on and it didn't have much impact by that point. In the end though, guy on our continent one a science victory anyway, and it was an awesome game :goodjob:
 
Not sure if this is a change with the patch, but I found today that Uluru doesn't count as a mountain for the purposes of Macchu Picchu at least (possibly because MP requires a mountain it can alter graphically?).

No this was the case before the patch. You can build an observatory if you are next to it, but not Neuschwanstein or Macchu Picchu. I think this applies to the Grand Mesa, Sinai, Barringer Crater, Gibralter as well. Not sure about Fuji or Kailash off the top of my head.
 
Hey, I just realised i dont propperly understand Kilimanjaro.
Can someone tell me is the double movement permenent or just next to the mountain?
I know the extra damage is, but are we clear that the movement is too? o.O
 
From a single-player perspective it is fine. I have about 2,000 hours of Civ5 played and the number of games where I've scouted Skilldorado first or managed to get a FoY on a map that wasn't surrounded by ice tiles are very few.

In other words I don't think the "instant win" scenario comes up often enough for it to be a problem. It is also fun to have the occasional game where you have a super amazing start.
 
Hey, I just realised i dont propperly understand Kilimanjaro.
Can someone tell me is the double movement permenent or just next to the mountain?
I know the extra damage is, but are we clear that the movement is too? o.O

The wording I've seen here indicates that the double movement only applies to units if that start their turns adjacent to the mountain (so is it coded to always be surrounded by hills?), it's not permanent.
 
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