History Article: Macedonia and Tzar samuil.

Tolni said:
Well, Bulgaria did recognize that Macedonia, you know, is an actual country. Since that moment, approximately once were they lynched.

So..Yeah, hyperbole awaaaaay!
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Bulgarians did recognize Macedonians but that will not stop them to take its east part (all the way to river Vardar as natural border) when The West launch disintegration of FYRM in order to even more expand Albanian controlled territory and thus increase drug trafficking from Afghanistan. Also The West won't hesitate to put Greeks into bankruptcy and even try to disintegrate it and give Epir (Serbs still use that name with no added "us" and also name Pir without "us") to Albanians, too.
 
Domen said:
Deleted. I think this thread is so hopeless that participating in it is pointless. :)
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Why pointless?
Man complains that someone wants to steal Greek culture in order to claim the land that he thinks belonged to Greece. So WHY NOT to mentioned who really lived there before Greeks come, before Mongol tribe called Bulgarians come, before Muslim tribe Turks (that is also of Tatar origin like Bulgarians) come? They only search for their truth trying to skip the real truth.
 
Because most of you are factproof, Balkan peoples.

But I will try:

christos200 said:
Even after the great expansion by Philip the II and Alexander the Great in the 400s BCE, perhaps even less than 10% of the FYROMian land was part of the `enlarged kingdom'. The reader should realize that the punitive expeditions of the Macedonians in the north, as well as their imperial acquisitions in the Balkans and Asia did not necessarily produce a `wider concept of Macedonia' - a country with boarders extending to India. That would be most simplistic! Pella, the capital of the ancient Makedones, is well within modern Greek borders.
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Okey dokey - and Kaliningrad Oblast is well within modern Russian borders.

However, Kaliningrad Oblast used to be inhabited mostly by Germans in 1944.

Area where Pella is located was mostly inhabited by FYROM-ians in 1913:

 

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Is the explanation for why there's few Bulgarian Macedonians (the compromise term I'm using) in the Pella region now similar to why there aren't any in Kaliningrad or the parts of Germany given to Poland after the Second World War?
 
The fact is that no one agrees as to what is the extend of Macedonia. The ancient Kingdom, the Roman province, the Byzantine province, the Ottoman province and the current modern claims differentiate very much. So, for a start, no one really knows what we can consider Macedonia and what not, especially in the north (FYROM) for the current Greek Macedonia has always been part of the Macedonian kingdoms/provinces.

I guess the "other" in that map means "Greeks", because this map seems to ignore the Greek population in Macedonia, which was certainly not an absolute majority, but was pretty populous, especially in coastal areas.

Also, I do not see any connection between a modern ethnic map and the ancient Macedonians, since during the middle ages huge waves of Slavs migrated into Greece, as far as the Peloponnese (even as South as Sparta). I think that it would have been weird if an area remained ethnologically the same after 3,000 years.
 
Louis XXIV said:
Is the explanation for why there's few Bulgarian Macedonians (the compromise term I'm using) in the Pella region now similar to why there aren't any in Kaliningrad or the parts of Germany given to Poland after the Second World War?
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Yes, about half of Slavs were deported and few hundred thousand Greeks (mostly from Turkey) came. Macedonia claims that there are still many Slavic Macedonians left in the region, but Greek censuses don't count them as such.

christos200 said:
I guess the "other" in that map means "Greeks"
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Apart from Greeks also Albanians, Turks, Jews (Salonica had Jewish majority), etc.

Of course Albanians mostly in the west, while southern coastal regions were mostly Greek.
 
christos200 said:
The fact is that no one agrees as to what is the extend of Macedonia. The ancient Kingdom, the Roman province, the Byzantine province, the Ottoman province and the current modern claims differentiate very much. So, for a start, no one really knows what we can consider Macedonia and what not, especially in the north (FYROM) for the current Greek Macedonia has always been part of the Macedonian kingdoms/provinces.

I guess the "other" in that map means "Greeks", because this map seems to ignore the Greek population in Macedonia, which was certainly not an absolute majority, but was pretty populous, especially in coastal areas.

Also, I do not see any connection between a modern ethnic map and the ancient Macedonians, since during the middle ages huge waves of Slavs migrated into Greece, as far as the Peloponnese (even as South as Sparta). I think that it would have been weird if an area remained ethnologically the same after 3,000 years.
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How about the Alexandrian Empire? I could get behind a Fyrom that stretched from Illyria to Indus.
 
christos200 said:
Also, I do not see any connection between a modern ethnic map and the ancient Macedonians, since during the middle ages huge waves of Slavs migrated into Greece, as far as the Peloponnese (even as South as Sparta). I think that it would have been weird if an area remained ethnologically the same after 3,000 years.
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But the region was not deserted when Slavs migrated there. They assimilated and absorbed local populations. Strategikon of Emperor Maurice gives hints as to why could early Slavs be so successful in expanding their language and culture even when migrating to regions already inhabited by other peoples:

"(...) Slavs do not keep prisoners in perpetual slavery like other peoples, but they demarcate for them a limited period of time, after which they give them a choice: they can return home after purchasing their freedom, or stay among them as free people and friends. (...)"
 
Miroslav I said:
Why pointless?
Man complains that someone wants to steal Greek culture in order to claim the land that he thinks belonged to Greece. So WHY NOT to mentioned who really lived there before Greeks come, before Mongol tribe called Bulgarians come, before Muslim tribe Turks (that is also of Tatar origin like Bulgarians) come? They only search for their truth trying to skip the real truth.
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Oh, for crying out loud. If we go with that theory, it means we're all Thracians. Like, all of us, yes, even you. Since however we obviously aren't, you'll have to compromise with the sad fact you're "mongol tribe called Bulgarians".
 
Tolni said:
Oh, for crying out loud. If we go with that theory, it means we're all Thracians. Like, all of us, yes, even you. Since however we obviously aren't, you'll have to compromise with the sad fact you're "mongol tribe called Bulgarians".
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You're all Neanderthals.
 
Tolni said:
Oh, for crying out loud. If we go with that theory, it means we're all Thracians. Like, all of us, yes, even you. Since however we obviously aren't, you'll have to compromise with the sad fact you're "mongol tribe called Bulgarians".
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Thracians were Serbs, too. Serbs still have word TRAČ (meanning gossip) and we still call Thracians - TRAČANI (those who talk too much). Also word TRAČATI (spreading gossips) is today still in regular use. In ancient times they were one of Serb tribes very known for separating and arguing from other Serb tribes.
Č sounds like tch in english, so go figure.
 
christos200 said:
The fact is that no one agrees as to what is the extend of Macedonia. The ancient Kingdom, the Roman province, the Byzantine province, the Ottoman province and the current modern claims differentiate very much. So, for a start, no one really knows what we can consider Macedonia and what not, especially in the north (FYROM) for the current Greek Macedonia has always been part of the Macedonian kingdoms/provinces.

I guess the "other" in that map means "Greeks", because this map seems to ignore the Greek population in Macedonia, which was certainly not an absolute majority, but was pretty populous, especially in coastal areas.

Also, I do not see any connection between a modern ethnic map and the ancient Macedonians, since during the middle ages huge waves of Slavs migrated into Greece, as far as the Peloponnese (even as South as Sparta). I think that it would have been weird if an area remained ethnologically the same after 3,000 years.
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The very core of all these is who were there before Greeks arrived, and you try not to give that answer. Serbs that are Slavic were there. We were here much more before that time and so called "migration of Slavs on Balkan in 7th century" in reality never happened.
 
Miroslav I said:
something-something... so called "migration of Slavs on Balkan in 7th century" in reality never happened.
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Of course it didn't. It happened much earlier, like from the start of the 4th century. By the 7th, they were a majority in most parts of the peninsula, including in some cities of the empire. I have no idea where you get your history from, but it is fascinating.
 
:crazyeye:
 
christos200 said:
Really, if a politician dares to make a deal which would recognize FYROM as Macedonia, he will need a helicopter to leave to US or Germany as soon as possible or he will be lynched. Not to say that his government may even fall.
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Really? Once again this statement exemplifies your lack of tolerance.
Fyrom/Macedonia recognizes Greek Macedonians as a minority in their country yet Greece doesn't recognize Slavic Macedonians as a minority in theirs, guess which nation is more civilized?

And the reason I didn't quote your whole thread in my post is that it's simply too long and didn't feel like editing it.
 
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