Spain's UA a little too good?

The UA is also somewhat good in BNW since early cash is always good, be it 100 or 500.

I recall having a balance idea of Spain's Ua being the following:

+4 to all Natural Wonder tile yields (Does not go past double)
Some Unique Building thingy that might give +1 gold for each luxury tile or something...

I mean, shoudl you be unlucky with th eownder, you might still have a building as a fallback, and whereas the NW yields won't be as crazy, a lot of NWs are still at their previous state.
 
I would actually say Spain's UA needs a buff. On marathon speed the gold bonus is still only 500/100 but the cost of everything is much higher (settler = 1160). Otherwise the UA is fine.
 
Dgodus said:
I would actually say Spain's UA needs a buff. On marathon speed the gold bonus is still only 500/100 but the cost of everything is much higher (settler = 1160). Otherwise the UA is fine.
Click to expand...

On marathon alot of civs become imbalanced. Imagine persia with 40 turn golden age..
 
I play Spain exclusively, i absolutely love them, just the fact that their UA is a direct incentive to explore the whole map asap.

I think the UA can be a tiny bit overpowered in the sense that 500 gold on turn 5 is just huge. Sure it's not guaranteed but i find that with effective scouting i will find an accessible NW about 2/3rds of the time. So the implication of this is usually an instant settler, and depending on the nature of the NW, quick growth potential in the city that works it, amounting to a "second capital" (uluru, kilimanjaro, gibraltar for instance, Lake Victoria is so insane that if you settle it early, good luck managing your happiness).

So i think that the first discovery bonus should be nerfed to maybe 300 gold (or scale with era) just so there is a bit of investment involved with getting that settler out, it would mean foregoing a rush bought archer or something, but just so there's something coming from the player's side.
 
Yea, gold bonus should scale up but start low. Tile yield shoudnt be double, but maybe just provide a massive amount of gold, say +10. Some nws are op under spain, fountain of youth = 20 happiness..

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Spain is my favourite for a relatively comfortable game.... ;)

It is "chancy"....but usually I don't bother playing on if I haven't found an interesting wonder by about Turn 10. I typically send my settler and my warrior in different directions....and sometimes the settler gets snatched by the Barbs....but it is surprising how far you can go without any real threats........

It seems almost pointless to play as Spain if you can't find a decent wonder. ...not that it can't be done...I've done it, but in that situation it isn't a very interesting civ.

I think the best way to view Spain is that it's a kind of "novelty" civ...something for fun rather than for "bragging rights" about being able to work your way up from a desperate start to a final glorious victory.....

In other words a "comfortable" game rather than a real "challenge"....

And good as a sort of tutorial if you are moving up to a higher level....as long as you find one of the good wonders, that is..... :)
 
My first game on Immortal I got Great Berrier Reef and Mt Kilimanjaro. In total I got 1000 gold (didnt find kili first) 14 food, 4 production, 6 culture, 4 gold, 8 science, and 24 faith a turn. Lets just say it was like playing a game on prince. (City 2 w/ reef was to far away from AI and City 3 w/ kili had a lot of mountains on one side and a lot of hills on the other side.)
 
The tercio takes a little more to build and is stronger than the musketman could be too good. The pro is that the tercio is stronger than the average musketman but the con is that the build time is longer so you have to wait more time for a tercio to come out of a city than the average musketman. Sometimes, having more musketman that are less strong can give an advantage especially when tercios couldn't get built on time.
Sort of like the shoshone pathfinder that takes a little longer to build than the average scout which is what makes the scout unique, it is built quick and it moves quick. The only good thing that the pathfinder has is that it is a bit stronger than the average scout.
 
You don't need to settle near a NW, just be the first to find them. Consider GBR and Eldorado and that's 2000 :c5gold: Also Spain gets double :c5happy: when you discover a NW, that's a potential +10 global :c5happy: Also If you settle FOV that's +20 global :c5happy: which means 15 more :c5citizen: than anyone else.
To answer the OP, yes Spain's UA can be very OP.
 
isau said:
I really dislike the way Spain was designed. The stakes for finding a Natural Wonder are just too high and there is no real strategy involved, you either luck into 500 gold or you don't. While you certainly can continue to play them if luck ends up not being on your side, to me this doesn't mask the fact that the UA fails to provide incentives after turn 150 or so to actually seek out the wonders any more actively than other players. Spain is all about rolling a lucky map early on. It just feels to me like a missed opportunity for something interesting.

I wish that in BNW each Natural Wonder in your borders provided an additional trade route. That would be a similar bonus (actually pay out more in the long run) but scale much better, allowing the player to seek out and conquer wonders without it being a situation where you get 100% or bust.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. Needs to be greater incentive for Spain to seek wonders in the Renaissance period (after astronomy), not so much in the early game.
 
If you can't find a wonder than your power is useless I do not like playing as Spain because it really just depends on luck whether you are or are not near wonders
 
Spain with a nearby good wonder is top-tier, but I don't know that it's *better* than what you'll get with your average game with Poland or the Mayans or whatnot. You may get an awesome early boost and a great religion, but the always-good top tier Civs have benefits that will accumulate over the entire game.
 
Spain is generally top 20 civs. UA is the main part, if you get natural wonder, spain is top 5 civ, if you dont, its around 30. Tercio's are nice against Knights, which AI's like for some reason. Conquistador's are essentially expensive Knights, on any map that has 1-3 large landmasses (pangaea, continents, earth, any maps like Highlands, Ring etc. which are full land maps with sides, real world maps like East US), and any variants of them. They are only good on Terra, Small continents, archipelago and other similar maps where there are no civs on some islands.
 
As far as I can remember I never have had the El Dorado in my games (not counting scenarios). Fountain of youth has showed up in the past it was back to back once actually though usually a lot of wonders are near city states for me but that was good enough reason to conquer it for the fountain. Solomon's Mines rarely show up and Cerro has showed up every now and then. Can't remember the last Krakatoa though.


I get like 2 or 3 faith ones per game...they show up WAY too much.
 
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