Top 5 best civs and why.

Title says it all, post your top 5 civs since the expansion and why you think they are.

Rules are:

Conquest Victory

The 2 best choices are obvious. Mongols & Huns.

Huns have incredible UUs especially rams which can capture cities in about 2 hits. Plus u can go & raze cities u don't want.

Mongols have no doubt the best UU (Keshlik) in the game & Khan are great supporting units so u can conquer, heal quickly & go on. Their army is very mobile too.

Rome can be another good choice, since ballista no longer require iron so u can make lots of them. Early warmongering + easy to build ur empire after some warmongering makes them on of the best conquerors.

Austria is good if you can use their UA. You can buy-over CSs and (I didn't realize this at first), you get to keep all their buildings and they act like a native city with no need for a courthouse.

Korea is super-powerful if you can get the Messenger of the Gods pantheon and start going ham on the science; this is especially advantageous bc of how badly they nerfed Great Scientists and research agreements.

Huns are powerful if you want to warmonger early bc you can spam horse archers to whittle-down enemy units and then go for the kill with battering rams... the early conquests make for a huge advantage later. Genghis's abilities are also awesome for the same reason, but his UU coming much later than Attila's makes him have a different feel.

Byzantium's extra belief when founding can be extremely advantageous if you can get both the Defender of the Faith and Just War. Add tithing as the founder belief to fund your armies. I usually get Faith Healers too as my Pantheon, which means that any battle within my religious sphere of influence is essentially an easy win, especially once I get my first Great General and promote units... I'm insansely powerful from stacking buffs... Bismarck once was two tech eras ahead of me and I was able to rebuff his forces in spite of that AND their greater numbers.

Haven't played a full game as a 5th new civ yet, although Ethiopia's ability sounds intriguing given my tendancy to grow tall empires.

EDIT:

I missed the line that said Conquest victory. If that's the case, then Songhai, China, Huns, Mongols and maybe Iroquois or Arabia.

Peacemongerer said:

Austria is good if you can use their UA. You can buy-over CSs and (I didn't realize this at first), you get to keep all their buildings and they act like a native city with no need for a courthouse.

Korea is super-powerful if you can get the Messenger of the Gods pantheon and start going ham on the science; this is especially advantageous bc of how badly they nerfed Great Scientists and research agreements.

Huns are powerful if you want to warmonger early bc you can spam horse archers to whittle-down enemy units and then go for the kill with battering rams... the early conquests make for a huge advantage later. Genghis's abilities are also awesome for the same reason, but his UU coming much later than Attila's makes him have a different feel.

Byzantium's extra belief when founding can be extremely advantageous if you can get both the Defender of the Faith and Just War. Add tithing as the founder belief to fund your armies. I usually get Faith Healers too as my Pantheon, which means that any battle within my religious sphere of influence is essentially an easy win, especially once I get my first Great General and promote units... I'm insansely powerful from stacking buffs... Bismarck once was two tech eras ahead of me and I was able to rebuff his forces in spite of that AND their greater numbers.

Haven't played a full game as a 5th new civ yet, although Ethiopia's ability sounds intriguing given my tendancy to grow tall empires.

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You sir, don't warmonger enough because I beg to differ on your choices, especially Korea who is much better suited with a turtle strategy, growing tall before pushing out.

My top 5 would have to be the Huns, Mongolia, China, Iroquois and Ottomans.

The Huns because their two UUs are amazing. The horse archers may appear weak but the compliment the battering rams very well. The horse archers pick off all the units you need to allowing the battering rams to get close enough to two shot early cities.

My reasons for Huns are pretty much applied to Mongolia as well. Quick mobile cavalry and OP UU in the Keshik and Khans are probably more useful with combat changes, since sieging cities takes alot of resources and extra healing probably has a bit more value now.

China has always been my favorite warmongering civ and its the only civ I can remember that needed two nerfs cause it was so OP. The paper maker has more value now that TPs are pushed back till Guilds tech, especially for warmongers where being in the red is common early game. The UA is probably the best warmongering ability with stronger and more frequent GGs and now that GG culture bomb (with no cooldown), they definitely have more utility.

The Iroquois I could understand if people don't see them as a good warmongering civ but I think their kit easily allows for it. The UA is annoying to micro around (like selective road building and purchasing forested tiles) but is incredibly rewarding with maintenance free roads and early roads as well. A swordsman UU that doesn't require iron will always be strong imo and the UB makes for production powerhouses to really push out the military units you need for domination victories.

I use to never play the Ottomans and they were always an afterthought until the naval combat changes and subsequent buff to Suleiman's UA. His UA now applies to ALL ships and not just barbs anymore, and now ships can now capture cities, I would say they are pretty satisfying to play with. Also, they have one of the best UUs in the Janissary and long swordsmen upgrade into them so they are more accessible, so are the Siphai since pikemen upgrade into them but I could live without them.

Mongols, China, and the Huns are probably at the top of the list, for obvious reasons. On water-heavy maps, the Ottomans can get ridiculous pretty fast. I agree that the Iroquois are also a strong choice, especially since they can now churn out both swordsmen and catapults without needing any Iron. I think Japan also deserves some consideration; now that units tend to be able to survive longer, Bushido becomes even stronger.

I still think Askia is phenomenal; his UA is maybe the best warmonger UA in the game, since capturing a city often produces enough gold to purchase a courthouse immediately.

The Huns for early rushes are obvious. Mongols are even better than before.

There are some interesting strategies available to the Celts if you can grab Holy Warriors fast. I don't think it's on a par with the Huns/Mongols, though.

The Ottomans and the English are both fantastic for later era conquest. Janissaries have always been one of the strongest UUs in the game, and now units upgrade through them, which is a HUGE buff, plus the Ottomans in general are pretty strong.

Denmark has to be a factor on a water map, for island conquest.

ezbutton said:

The Iroquois I could understand if people don't see them as a good warmongering civ but I think their kit easily allows for it. The UA is annoying to micro around (like selective road building and purchasing forested tiles) but is incredibly rewarding with maintenance free roads and early roads as well. A swordsman UU that doesn't require iron will always be strong imo and the UB makes for production powerhouses to really push out the military units you need for domination victories.

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Iroquois were pretty good at early domination before the expansion after their iron cost was removed in a patch, but G&K heavily nerfed the Swordsmen in indirect ways. The Mohawk Warrior is mainly for defensive purposes now with their 33% forest/jungle bonus.

Before G&K, Pikemen had 10 strength, Swordsmen had 11 strength, and Longswordsmen had 18 strength.
Now, Pikemen have 16 strength and Swordsmen have 14 strength, and Longswordsmen have 21 strength.

Before G&K, Spearmen had 7 strength, and Warriors had 6 strength.
Now, Spearmen have 11 strength, and Warriors have 8 strength.

Relatively speaking, the buffs to Spearmen and Pikemen are much better than the buffs to Warriors and Swordsmen. This makes civs with unique spearmen/pikemen, MUCH better.

Persia can be nigh invincible with their unique 12 strength Spearmen that heals twice as fast and has a 50% bonus against mounted units. You can blitz the other Civs if you get a Golden Age in the ancient/classical era.

Greeks, despite people saying they aren't as good anymore, actually got better.
13 strength spearmen. 'nuff said.

Germany. Half-cost Pikemen on top of reduced land military maintenance. Zeeeeerg!!

ezbutton said:

You sir, don't warmonger enough because I beg to differ on your choices, especially Korea who is much better suited with a turtle strategy, growing tall before pushing out.

My top 5 would have to be the Huns, Mongolia, China, Iroquois and Ottomans.

The Huns because their two UUs are amazing. The horse archers may appear weak but the compliment the battering rams very well. The horse archers pick off all the units you need to allowing the battering rams to get close enough to two shot early cities.

My reasons for Huns are pretty much applied to Mongolia as well. Quick mobile cavalry and OP UU in the Keshik and Khans are probably more useful with combat changes, since sieging cities takes alot of resources and extra healing probably has a bit more value now.

China has always been my favorite warmongering civ and its the only civ I can remember that needed two nerfs cause it was so OP. The paper maker has more value now that TPs are pushed back till Guilds tech, especially for warmongers where being in the red is common early game. The UA is probably the best warmongering ability with stronger and more frequent GGs and now that GG culture bomb (with no cooldown), they definitely have more utility.

The Iroquois I could understand if people don't see them as a good warmongering civ but I think their kit easily allows for it. The UA is annoying to micro around (like selective road building and purchasing forested tiles) but is incredibly rewarding with maintenance free roads and early roads as well. A swordsman UU that doesn't require iron will always be strong imo and the UB makes for production powerhouses to really push out the military units you need for domination victories.

I use to never play the Ottomans and they were always an afterthought until the naval combat changes and subsequent buff to Suleiman's UA. His UA now applies to ALL ships and not just barbs anymore, and now ships can now capture cities, I would say they are pretty satisfying to play with. Also, they have one of the best UUs in the Janissary and long swordsmen upgrade into them so they are more accessible, so are the Siphai since pikemen upgrade into them but I could live without them.

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Yeah, I almost never warmonger anymore. I've warmongered as the Iroquois and Songhai in particular in vanilla and had a fun time of it. I found the Songhai's loot bonus and the Iroquois' road bonus to be really good. Haven't played as them in G&K, so I hestitated to comment on them. The only warmongering game I did in G&K was with Attila, where I somehow manged to be friends with Genghis, who didn't even declare any wars (weird, I know). I didn't have Mongolia on DLC prior to G&K, so I've barely gotten to toy with them

I hadn't thought about turtling with Korea (although I easily could have) just bc I had the biggest population and was 3 eras ahead of everyone else in tech, going for a science victory. I could see how they'd be effective turning into warmongers late tho.

I only conquered one civ, Austria, bc she pissed me off... outside of that the only other war I fought was with Denmark when he attacked me bc he saw my troop count was low. 60,000 casualties later, he handed me all of his cities. Having modern infantry, bombers and artillery ravage their riflemen and crossbowmen was just not fair. I two-shotted most of the cities I attacked.

China was also fun for warmongering, but I only played as them once in vanilla bc I preferred Songhai.

With Gods & Kings on a Huge map, Arabia is the best civilization in the game.

Best unique unit in the game. Camel Archer now has more 17 strength, 21 ranged strength, and 4 movement. It's overpowered for all the reasons Keshik always was, except this does more damage.

The best unique building in the game. Bazaar adds ludicrous amounts of wealth to your empire through trade with other civilizations. It also adds extra gold for Oases and Oil. The sheer amount of wealth this single building produces is just stupid.

A decent ability. A flat gold bonus isn't too bad and added amounts of any resource is welcome. Mostly that extra oil is just good for trading away, letting you get even more money.

Desert start bias is now stupidly good. Desert Folklore is the most powerful pantheon belief in the game, providing ridiculous levels of faith early on and still impressive faith later. Petra will turn a single chosen city into the most powerful thing ever.


All of this makes for amazing synergy too. Everything you have rewards rapid expansion through settlers and conquest, as long as you keep several customers still around (the dead can't pay you). Huge faith from Desert Folklore ensures access to the best beliefs (Ceremonial Burials, Asceticism, Religious Texts) and lets you pray wonders or technology into existence later by purchasing great persons with faith. Money can be used for nearly any purpose, so Arabia's ability to generate more wealth than any other civ can dream of is extremely impressive.


But this asked for top five. Not in order, I think:
- China is still as good as ever. Not much has changed for them. Their only improvement is that the Cho-Ko-Nu remains ranged when upgraded, making its bonus attack more useful.

- Persia is still very strong, even though it gained nothing from Gods & Kings.

- Aztecs still have an incredibly good building and a decent ability. Their unit got slightly better, plus the greater lasting power of units in battle means it's more likely to last throughout the eras, keeping all of its promotions as you upgrade it.

- Celts can abuse religion amazingly well. No one else starts with faith, so they're guaranteed first Pantheon, and they should have first religion if they're smart. This gives them first pick of everything. Their building also has a huge +3 happiness bonus on it.

Drawmeus said:

I still think Askia is phenomenal; his UA is maybe the best warmonger UA in the game, since capturing a city often produces enough gold to purchase a courthouse immediately.

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Added to the fact that he get more gold from conquering cities,now this UA has been buffed,with Amphibous promotion for every land unit,along with double embarked defense for them . Askia has been my favorite warmonger Civ and now it's even more .

GenjiKhan said:

Added to the fact that he get more gold from conquering cities,now this UA has been buffed,with Amphibous promotion for every land unit,along with double embarked defense for them . Askia has been my favorite warmonger Civ and now it's even more .

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I don't know if I'd put Songhai in the top five, but certainly the top 10. It's a very good civilization.

Dont underestimate Songhai, Mandekalu cav has 4 movement, ignores city defense and ha amphibious kissing rivers goodbye. Add in double embarkation and plus one sight and very versatile. Given how nasty cities are being able to attack through water can be very useful, and no need for navy. Oh and the calvary unit is no longer horrible allowing you to avoid a nasty dip. In fact with siege being so necessary and melee more for blocking faster movement for Cav for switching out units and sniping cities is great.

Heaps and Heaps of gold is very nice. Add in decent Ub that can get religious centers for happy easy and very tough civ.

I like Austria, Arabia and Byzantium best so far, and cannot name two more yet...I don't like mongols and huns, but they are probably good for early conquest.

Austrias snowballing across the map with buying the CS when needed is pretty solid, but not early in the game. Byzantium playing up the faith is good for zerg scenarios. Arabia is pretty much as KevinJK posts above - I don't like the desert thing, but it works.

Austria is another that I'd consider top 10, but maybe not top 5. Their building and unit are great and their ability, while sounding unimportant on paper, is potentially very powerful. My only problem is that they have nothing until mid to late game. At that point their abilities go wild, but before then they have no benefits.

KevinJK said:

I don't know if I'd put Songhai in the top five, but certainly the top 10. It's a very good civilization.

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What are your top 5? I can't think of 5 better warmongers. Maybe situationally, but not generally.

I've always felt that the Inca were possibly the best civ, and the expansion has only strengthened them. They're also surprisingly excellent warmongers through all the eras, and with the backing of strong production to keep those units coming and strong economy to keep them well upgraded.

You get ludicrous amounts of gold from very early on right through to the end of the game. The terrace farm might give you a small boost for your normal cities, but its key benefit is making amazing additional production-heavy cities out of the terrain that nobody else wants. The extra mobility of your units lets you defend reckless overexpansion (especially with earlier roads), and the extra mobility of your workers gets things done faster. On offence, the mobility bonus is even better, letting you get to the opponent faster and in better formation, outflank better, fire MANY more shots with archery units, reduce reinforcement time and get injured units out of danger. One of those abilities you have to try to appreciate its potency. The slinger is nothing special, but Inca archery units are almost UUs anyway, and it’s fantastic for fighting barbs without an escort (probably because you overexpanded) or just using a little more aggressively than a normal archer.

Happiness was always the Inca bottleneck, but G&K makes happiness a fair bit easier to come by, making these guys especially scary. Getting siege into position quickly and efficiently for city attacks is now especially crucial, and nobody does that better than Inca. Archery units are improved, and Inca archery is almost second-to-none. Inca gatling guns are particularly amazing. Gold is tighter early on, which really gives an advantage in being able to get roads going early and profiting sooner. And some of those pantheon beliefs (Messenger of the Gods, Desert Folklore and Aurora) and Petra seem pretty tailor-made. Pagodas too. The later settler in Liberty and the scaling back of research agreements seem to be the only real negatives.

For the other four?
Mongols for the obvious reasons
Huns are an absolute early-game steamroller, though on a larger map they might not have the chops to go the distance
China for their combo of warmongering and economic chops
And perhaps Japan, because I suspect Bushido will be even stronger now with the combat changes

You forgot a really nice boost for Inca, Terrace farms now benefit from Civil Service and Fertilizer and thus are even better. Now a Terrace farm on river hill is 3 food without mountain making INca a bit less situational.

ezbutton said:

The Iroquois I could understand if people don't see them as a good warmongering civ but I think their kit easily allows for it. The UA is annoying to micro around (like selective road building and purchasing forested tiles) but is incredibly rewarding with maintenance free roads and early roads as well. A swordsman UU that doesn't require iron will always be strong imo and the UB makes for production powerhouses to really push out the military units you need for domination victories.

I use to never play the Ottomans and they were always an afterthought until the naval combat changes and subsequent buff to Suleiman's UA. His UA now applies to ALL ships and not just barbs anymore, and now ships can now capture cities, I would say they are pretty satisfying to play with. Also, they have one of the best UUs in the Janissary and long swordsmen upgrade into them so they are more accessible, so are the Siphai since pikemen upgrade into them but I could live without them.

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Carthage kinda fits in there between Iroquois and the Ottomans from what I can tell. Free harbors in every city saves loads of cash on roads, and gives a decent production boost from water resources. While their very strong and very cheap UU lets them dominate the sea until the Caravel (though in my last game I watched two of them take down a frigate so...). Then their awesome elephants of course...

I really like them, anyways, just thought I'd bring them to your attention!

I asked this question originally because with the type of games i play, i cant be making new civs all the time lol.

I play games on marathon, with the earth map, on huge.

So my games last thousands of turns. To me, this is the ultimate game, and i only set it to conquest. I originally started out with 22 civs, 45 city states, but the city states seem to be stronger in the xpac, and they hinder my expansion, so i have cut them out.

So for a huge, earth sized marathon battle with 22 civs, I need to find the best one for the job.

For this reason alone, i think the huns and mongolia may not be top 5.

Granted, this is just my way of playing. I used to always play the Iroquois (im native) or america. Since the xpac i have tried the celts (i wanted to see the impact of religion)


And one nagging question. why is Constantinople so strong? At one point i had a city with a 22 defense, and constant had a 45!

kindrik76 said:

And one nagging question. why is Constantinople so strong? At one point i had a city with a 22 defense, and constant had a 45!

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I realize this is a valid question, it's just... asking why the strongest city in history is so strong...