World Ideology if you get one first...

Anarchist · Sep 22, 2014

You can suggest yours be the World Ideology if you get one before most of the AI's do, and strangely enough, they will vote for it if they have none. They will still go for an untaken ideology later, crippling themselves in the process.

It's definitely a bug, and an exploit to use it IMO, but I did laugh when I found it. The reason I tried it was that there are so few proposals that I want to put forward, and I get asked every time (as I try to be the host).

phillipwyllie · Sep 22, 2014

I wouldn't say it's a bug or an exploit. The civs that voted aye to your proposal will now expect you to be more friendlier towards them. I've had a game where Washington proposed Freedom(my ideology) most likely for that very reason as he picked Order.....

Why would the AI want to be friendly with you? Well you've entered the Modern era when some civs are still in the Medieval era, wouldn't you be friendly with a civ that had done that?

Question · Sep 22, 2014

phillipwyllie said:
I wouldn't say it's a bug or an exploit. The civs that voted aye to your proposal will now expect you to be more friendlier towards them. I've had a game where Washington proposed Freedom(my ideology) most likely for that very reason as he picked Order.....

Why would the AI want to be friendly with you? Well you've entered the Modern era when some civs are still in the Medieval era, wouldn't you be friendly with a civ that had done that?

Weird, i usually see AI civs that are severly behind in tech/score being whiny kids that keep denouncing me and complaining about all kinds of stuff.

joncnunn · Sep 22, 2014

Not always, it's actually fairly complex.

First, each AI rules out ideologies with no level 3 tenets towards its chosen victory condition.
(e.g. those seeking Domination rule out Freedom, those seeking Diplomatic rule out Order, those seeking Science Victory rule out Autocracy)

Next there are multipliers for early adopter policies.

Next, if anyone else has adopted an ideology, there is a positive modifier for that if the AI likes them and a negative modifier if they don't (for each player that's adopted it)

Finally all values get normalized and those all become the percent possibility of that the AI might choose it when it uses the RNG.

Yes, if your denounced it's BECAUSE that AI doesn't think it has the military to beat you on their own and so is seeking allies. When they think they have enough to beat you on their own they skip denouements and simply DOW you.

Sessy · Sep 22, 2014

^

I wonder where you can find the formulas for it, is it in the XML code for AIs?

I usually pick one and see the next 2 guys pick the other ideologies simply for free tenets. then they get a bunch of unhappiness and start denouncing me

TheGrumpyBuddha · Sep 22, 2014

joncnunn said:
Not always, it's actually fairly complex.

First, each AI rules out ideologies with no level 3 tenets towards its chosen victory condition.
(e.g. those seeking Domination rule out Freedom, those seeking Diplomatic rule out Order, those seeking Science Victory rule out Autocracy)

Next there are multipliers for early adopter policies.

Next, if anyone else has adopted an ideology, there is a positive modifier for that if the AI likes them and a negative modifier if they don't (for each player that's adopted it)

Finally all values get normalized and those all become the percent possibility of that the AI might choose it when it uses the RNG.

Yes, if your denounced it's BECAUSE that AI doesn't think it has the military to beat you on their own and so is seeking allies. When they think they have enough to beat you on their own they skip denouements and simply DOW you.

I feel like there's a factor missing, which is how much tourism you've spawned at them so far. Pretty much regardless of friendships, if I am generating zero tourism, no one will ever take my ideology. If I've been generating a bunch up to that point, there's a decent chance someone will.

joncnunn · Sep 22, 2014

Sessy said:
^

I wonder where you can find the formulas for it, is it in the XML code for AIs?

I usually pick one and see the next 2 guys pick the other ideologies simply for free tenets. then they get a bunch of unhappiness and start denouncing me

It's in the DLL C++ source code made available to modders. I actually grabbed the copy that one of the smart AI mods was using (but it doesn't touch this section)

This portion of the code is actually cleaner than some other sections I looked at, so just about every programmer should be able to read it even if they code in a different computer language.

TheGrumpyBuddha said:
I feel like there's a factor missing, which is how much tourism you've spawned at them so far. Pretty much regardless of friendships, if I am generating zero tourism, no one will ever take my ideology. If I've been generating a bunch up to that point, there's a decent chance someone will.

I might not have listed all of the factors, but at least for the initial pick it's really minor if it's considering ideological happiness issues at all.
That however is a factor in deciding if the AI should revolt.

DarkestOnion · Sep 22, 2014

If you are getting the First Ideology regularly, then the bug for me is that you are playing at too low of a Difficulty Level

joncnunn · Sep 22, 2014

DarkestOnion said:
If you are getting the First Ideology regularly, then the bug for me is that you are playing at too low of a Difficulty Level

You can actually get a very high hit rate of First Ideology even on Immortal if you use Oxford for ultra early entry to the Modern era via Oxford instead of trying to get 3 factories up.
This point is also late enough that it's possible even on Deity to beat all the AIs to it via standard science is king tactics.

World Ideology if you get one first...

Anarchist

Warlord

phillipwyllie

Wannabe Deity

Question

King

joncnunn

Senior Java Wizard

Sessy

Prince

TheGrumpyBuddha

King

joncnunn

Senior Java Wizard

DarkestOnion

Prince

joncnunn

Senior Java Wizard

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