Subdued Animals in C2C discussions

mart777 · Jun 30, 2015

Yudishtira said:
How's this for an idea?

An improvement, that you can build in domestic or neutral territory. While a tile has this improvement on it, it will always be neutral territory.

Maybe spawning animals on such territory would be better. Having no-one's land inside your borders, just because there are some, e.g. forests with game, is a bit too harsh, I think.

Wild animals could move around such terrain, even in cultural borders.
That potentially would lead to increased turn processing times.

Dancing Hoskuld · Jun 30, 2015

Yudishtira said:
How's this for an idea?

An improvement, that you can build in domestic or neutral territory. While a tile has this improvement on it, it will always be neutral territory.

I thought it might be called "Game Preserve". The reason is of course to ensure something for hunters to do in renaissance and later (since they can't lead stacks of death anymore...) If necessary, the improvement could also increase the spawn rate, so that an animal was showing up at least every 5 turns or so (adjusted for gamespeed so this is marathon or snail).

Interesting idea. However there is no way to set territory to neutral at the moment.

Also the neutral area would then be open to spawning barbarians who would destroy the improvement or destroy it.

Having said that it would be possible to have a "Game Preserve" which is owned by the barbarians in which wild animals can spawn. I add it to the bandit hideout set of ideas.

It could even be a "X Lair" on the map which spawns animals from the start...

mart777 said:
Maybe spawning animals on such territory would be better. Having no-one's land inside your borders, just because there are some, e.g. forests with game, is a bit too harsh, I think.

Wild animals could move around such terrain, even in cultural borders.
That potentially would lead to increased turn processing times.

Not harsh at all. There are often plots inside my territory that no city (or fort) can work.

Spawning wild animals inside your territory is not going to happen. Also I disagree strongly with those who want wild animals to wander into your territory.

Yudishtira · Jul 1, 2015

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Interesting idea. However there is no way to set territory to neutral at the moment.

Also the neutral area would then be open to spawning barbarians who would destroy the improvement or destroy it.

Having said that it would be possible to have a "Game Preserve" which is owned by the barbarians in which wild animals can spawn. I add it to the bandit hideout set of ideas.

It could even be a "X Lair" on the map which spawns animals from the start...

If it spawns a barb you have a turn to kill them before they can pillage (assuming they want to as it's not a high value target). Plus you can always rebuild it. Even if it can and does spawn a barb city, it's no biggie (although I'd prefer if it couldn't).

Thunderbrd · Jul 1, 2015

Yudishtira said:
If it spawns a barb you have a turn to kill them before they can pillage (assuming they want to as it's not a high value target). Plus you can always rebuild it. Even if it can and does spawn a barb city, it's no biggie (although I'd prefer if it couldn't).

It'd be better to set it up to spawn an animal on the improvement then assign the animal a domain_immobile all via python.

Yudishtira · Jul 2, 2015

Thunderbrd said:
It'd be better to set it up to spawn an animal on the improvement then assign the animal a domain_immobile all via python.

It will in most cases be a single tile surrounded by your civ, so immobility is automatic.

If two or more are adjacent, the animal will be able to move between them. What's the problem suddenly with a wild animal moving around outside your culture?

Barb animals that get caught in your culture are immobilized anyway.

JosEPh_II · Jul 2, 2015

Dancing Hoskuld said:
<snip>
Spawning wild animals inside your territory is not going to happen. Also I disagree strongly with those who want wild animals to wander into your territory.

Rwn's Modmod at 1st had this problem in it. And they could enter into the Main city tile too like HN units.

But his v1.04 corrected these problems. Now if you place a city and any wild is caught in the main 9 they have a chance to move Out of these main tiles. That to me is acceptable instead of them being totally immobile till you decide to "take" them.

JosEPh

Harrier · Jul 21, 2015

Not sure if this has been mentioned before!.

But, would it be possible to make Subdued Animals and Tamed Animals use the missionary (type) function [a cross -if I remember] that allows them to search for cities that do not have that religion that they need to spread too.

So, you have an animal, click on the (NEW button) similar Cross type button -it goes to a City that can build a Zoo, Govenor Menageriery etc. Any thing that animals can build. You are given the option of what to build.

Would save a lot of micro- managemant, late game in deciding what to do - (trying to find a city that needed that animal - instead of just killing it.

Just a thought.

Thunderbrd · Jul 21, 2015

Harrier said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned before!.

But, would it be possible to make Subdued Animals and Tamed Animals use the missionary (type) function [a cross -if I remember] that allows them to search for cities that do not have that religion that they need to spread too.

So, you have an animal, click on the (NEW) button -it goes to a City that can build a Zoo, Govenor Meganiery etc. You are given the choise of what to build.

Just a thought.

Possible and desirable, yes. Not easily done really. Particularly since I just had to fix an OOS in the missionary spread function. Though now that it is, that whole function could be replicated and slightly adjusted to work for animal automations. It's still a little tricky perhaps. At least somewhat time consuming.

Dancing Hoskuld · Jul 21, 2015

Harrier said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned before!.

But, would it be possible to make Subdued Animals and Tamed Animals use the missionary (type) function [a cross -if I remember] that allows them to search for cities that do not have that religion that they need to spread too.

So, you have an animal, click on the (NEW button) similar Cross type button -it goes to a City that can build a Zoo, Govenor Menageriery etc. Any thing that animals can build. You are given the option of what to build.

Would save a lot of micro- managemant, late game in deciding what to do - (trying to find a city that needed that animal - instead of just killing it.

Just a thought.

Thunderbrd said:
Possible and desirable, yes. Not easily done really. Particularly since I just had to fix an OOS in the missionary spread function. Though now that it is, that whole function could be replicated and slightly adjusted to work for animal automations. It's still a little tricky perhaps. At least somewhat time consuming.

Actually it is quite easy. I did similar for the Immigrant. However that is one button for automate each building but not so easy to do one button for all buildings as people would then want to prioritise which buildings

.

The main problem is the bug in the missionary/executive automate function. No one has pointed it out until I used it (cloned code) to automate Immigrant. When automated these units will ignore danger and often get killed because of it. Mostly when they go out of your cultural borders.

If the ai mission was changed to request an escort when crossing such lands the problem would go away. The mission is currently something like

Find nearest city that needs building/religion/corporation that does not currently have a unit on its way there
go to that city by quickest route
do mission ie spread religion/corporation, build building, add to population

It is point 2 that needs adjusting.

Thunderbrd · Jul 22, 2015

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Actually it is quite easy. I did similar for the Immigrant. However that is one button for automate each building but not so easy to do one button for all buildings as people would then want to prioritise which buildings.

The main problem is the bug in the missionary/executive automate function. No one has pointed it out until I used it (cloned code) to automate Immigrant. When automated these units will ignore danger and often get killed because of it. Mostly when they go out of your cultural borders.

If the ai mission was changed to request an escort when crossing such lands the problem would go away. The mission is currently something like

Find nearest city that needs building/religion/corporation that does not currently have a unit on its way there

go to that city by quickest route

do mission ie spread religion/corporation, build building, add to population

It is point 2 that needs adjusting.

For the player's units to require an escort while automated would require that units be automated to fill in the role for escort requests. This could be rather difficult to work with.

There's a SMALL amount of defensive maneuvering in the missionary code but they have to see the problem for it to work and many times they'll be commanded to go to a spot beyond where they can see and don't re-evaluate with each step (doing so could be pretty heavy on processing.)

To an extent, it's the player's responsibility to ensure safe travel if they are automating where dangers could exist. I'm not convinced the cost of changing that would be worthwhile.

A full on python solution could be possible and would've been something I was unaware of so thanks for correcting that.

Dancing Hoskuld · Jul 22, 2015

Thunderbrd said:
For the player's units to require an escort while automated would require that units be automated to fill in the role for escort requests. This could be rather difficult to work with.

That is exactly the problem. The AI units will request an escort and wait until they get one but the human players do not have that ability. Partly because you can't set a unit on "escort duty when needed" only "escort this unit now".

The bit I did not do in Python was 1...that does not currently have a unit on its way there as I could not figure out a quick and simple method that would work over saves

Thunderbrd · Jul 22, 2015

Dancing Hoskuld said:
That is exactly the problem. The AI units will request an escort and wait until they get one but the human players do not have that ability. Partly because you can't set a unit on "escort duty when needed" only "escort this unit now".

The bit I did not do in Python was 1...that does not currently have a unit on its way there as I could not figure out a quick and simple method that would work over saves

I could set up such an AI setting. Then automation could be forged to set a unit TO that. But it would take some time to do and I feel there's a lot more important goals ahead of that.

mart777 · Oct 10, 2015

Playing svn8754, which is now very recent.
I have a question about two possible actions in a city with subdued animals:
- "Add a tale of an animal..." It says, +1 culture, +1 gold. Am I right, that this is one time bonus? But better results are with some buildings, like library, storyteler, etc.
- "Animal vs. animal or animal vs. man in a fight..." And it gives bonus for 5 turns. +5 culture, +1 happy, +1 commerce. So total is +25, +5, +5.

If I'm correct with understanding these, the second option is so much better when having no these storyteller/library-type buildings. Is this intended?

-----
Edit:
Ah, ok. It looks like, the second option is total: +5, +5 happy (and only this is for 5 turns) +1 commerce.

Thunderbrd · Oct 10, 2015

The second option only adds the benefit for a very short span of time. The first adds it until obsoleted.

Dancing Hoskuld · Oct 10, 2015

The first also allows more buildings science and education later down the tech tree. Plus they will be needed to produce the tamed animals.

mart777 · Oct 10, 2015

Ok, so this tale, where does it show? In special buildings?

mart777 · Oct 10, 2015

And maybe I should point here - this is not about these 2 options:
- construct (story...
- construct (stories...

The one I'm thinking is between: butcher animal and this fight one. I think this option is old, and was there before these construct options

Dancing Hoskuld · Oct 10, 2015

There are buildings that it can construct some lead to other buildings.

Then there are actions it can do. There should only be three

- butcher for hammers and food plus occasionally money

- add to cultural heritage, gives a one off boost to culture and sometimes a one off boost to science

- exhibit in a fight - temporary happiness boost for x turns and maybe some gold

mart777 · Oct 10, 2015

Thank you, I understand now.

strategyonly · Oct 17, 2015

No benefits from a subdued tarantula?

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