Tech Tree Discussion

The tech glass blowing is invisible and doesn't allow you to click on it in the tech tree.
You can still get it from the tech bar. Just not the tech tree.
Any tech that require glass blowing can also not be clicked.
 
ssmage said:
The tech glass blowing is invisible and doesn't allow you to click on it in the tech tree.
You can still get it from the tech bar. Just not the tech tree.
Any tech that require glass blowing can also not be clicked.
Click to expand...

Have you posted this in the Bug and Crash sub forum? A screenshot would be nice too.

JosEPh
 
Arakhor said:
After some consideration, how about the following:

SS Docking Bay = Commercial Spaceflight
SS Thrusters = Controlled Plasma (or perhaps Magnetic Sails)
SS Life Support = Advanced Environmental Systems
SS Engine = Mass Driver
SS Cockpit = Interactive Glass
SS Casing = Superstrong Alloys
SS Stasis Chamber = Cryogenics (which should really be called Cryonics instead)
Click to expand...

The reason they were moved to the end of the tree was the Spaceship was suppose to become a "Multiverse Ship" that could travel outside of our universe. Since spaceships were mundane and left for the space map. While multiverse ships woud go outside of the game.
 
Hydromancerx said:
Is that an invitation for me to help with the tech tree again?
Click to expand...

Even Mr. NoNo would like to see this. ;)

Your work that is unfinished on Crops (Negative Air Pollution) could use some attention too. I still have that file zipped if you need it.

And I would like to see the early Farms you had for HAND in it's infancy brought back. Those that expanded upon the Cows, Pigs, etc resources.

JosEPh
 
Hydromancerx said:
Is that an invitation for me to help with the tech tree again?
Click to expand...
We desperately need the Medieval to be re-sorted out. Techs that should be medieval are positioned in late classical. The Medieval era is dramatically underdeveloped. There's that huge gap in space to work with. It's kinda a mess and it looks like one.

And I think it should go without saying that the team always has room for one of the founding fathers of the mod to get back onboard with us! You might have a little catching up to do on what we've done in the meantime but hopefully it's all good stuff.

I looked at the first link there and didn't see much we don't currently represent unfortunately. I also felt that our tree is much better researched in terms of chronological accuracy. I'm not tooting our horn yet though because I still think it could use a lot of improvement. What few things they did seem to present would be entirely new chains of building concepts and I'm thinking we need to perfect the ones we have before looking at new ones. I suppose if it gets the juices flowing to look elsewhere, its worth looking at, but I've always felt that we, the modders of C2C, have better internal guidance as to what to develop and how to go about it then we get from looking at the works of others. AKA, WE drive innovation, not the other way around! ;)
 
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Yeah, the Forge of Empires tree is good for the purposes of that game, but their notion of technology seems to be somewhat different from ours conceptually, and at any rate just about everything there is already included. But some of the techs could be split apart. For instance, there could Castle Building (split from Engineering) and Longbows (split from Feudalism).

However, I don't think the Medieval Era actually does represent as great a leap in human capabilities as the other eight eras.
 
pepper2000 said:
However, I don't think the Medieval Era actually does represent as great a leap in human capabilities as the other eight eras
Click to expand...
It doesn't but the journey through this segment of the tech tree needs to represent the amount of time and give the player the capacity to have long extended tet-a-tet warfare conflicts which the era was historically filled with. Without making techs take a huge amount of time each, the way to achieve that would be to become more specific about what the techs represent, just as you suggested.
pepper2000 said:
Castle Building (split from Engineering) and Longbows (split from Feudalism).
Click to expand...
I'm thinking 'Yeomanry' for the Longbows and give a civic for that to go with the concept too. Splitting out castle construction from engineering is also a wonderful idea! In fact, one could show how castle development was one of the major chains of progress in that era by breaking it up further into differing castle segment accessing techs. Seems most of the progress made during that era was in the massive proliferation in unique weapon and armor designs. These steps could be broken up further to show this as well. Storytelling took some steps forward during that age with scribery becoming a major profession... there's certainly more that CAN be done.
 
Thunderbrd said:
Splitting out castle construction from engineering is also a wonderful idea! In fact, one could show how castle development was one of the major chains of progress in that era by breaking it up further into differing castle segment accessing techs.
Click to expand...

I watched a TV program about a year or so ago that suggested a lot of castle improvements were not made for new castles. But additions to existing buildings to make them more secure. Just wish I could remember what is was called.
 
The medieval era had great strides forward. Mostly from rediscovering the writings of the Classic era and putting new twists on them. Great steps were taken in the ideas around laws and justice for example.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
The medieval era had great strides forward. Mostly from rediscovering the writings of the Classic era and putting new twists on them. Great steps were taken in the ideas around laws and justice for example.
Click to expand...
So we need to encapsulate these strides forward into techs!
 
The fundamental problem with the tech tree is that it always flows forward. It doesn't know "dark ages" where knowledge and tech are lost. There have been many instances in history where higher developed civilizations were destroyed by lower developed civilizations. The European dark ages came to be because of the collapse of the Roman Empire. The Roman empire fell partially due to severe population shrinkage, population that was replaced by less developed "barbarians" with high populations and no loyalty towards Rome. These "barbarians" spent centuries catching up to what the Roman Empire had already achieved in the tech tree.

History channel documentary on the Dark Ages:

(bad picture quality unfortunately but an awesome documentary)
 
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Two things about that:

  1. The tech tree for one civilization always flows forward. If an advanced civilization collapses the "world civilization level" can go backward - that has been possible since [civ1].
  2. There were no "Dark Ages" like that - The History Channel has not been the most reliable source for a long time. What most historians agree on today is that there was a collapse of population, mostly due to a few pandemics, and a collapse of order, since the Roman Empire was not replaced by another big empire - in the west. The best proof that this "collapse of civilization" did not happen is the survival of the Eastern Roman Empire aka Byzantine Empire, which in its day was simply called the Roman Empire. The full knowledge of the Roman Empire was preserved behind the Walls of Constantinople, and if this "downfall of civilization" had really happened, Justinian's restoration would not have failed.
 
Actually the estern empire experienced a similar economic and demographic collaps in the 6th and 7th century as the west had in the 5th. Cities were severely reduced in size if not abandoned all through the empire (except constantinople itself). It remained politically intact but demographically and economically it was very similar to what had already happened in the west. A very commercialized and in that respect very modern looking economy had to be replaced with a much more rural and mostly subsistence economy. The prolonged and devastating wars first with persia, the various invaders in the balkans and then with the arab caliphate was a tremendous expense, and the incredibly heavy taxation was slowly strangling the fertility and productivity of the countryside and eventually the entire state structure and especially the military structure had to be reworked into a system that didn't rely so much on coinage, trade and overtaxing the population. The eastern empire survived the crisis, and even though knowledge wasn't quite as wiped out as it had been in the west there certainly were much less of it. Especially as it was much more engaged in religious controversy and debate than in preserving the classics.
 
Noriad2 said:
The fundamental problem with the tech tree is that it always flows forward. It doesn't know "dark ages" where knowledge and tech are lost. There have been many instances in history where higher developed civilizations were destroyed by lower developed civilizations. The European dark ages came to be because of the collapse of the Roman Empire. The Roman empire fell partially due to severe population shrinkage, population that was replaced by less developed "barbarians" with high populations and no loyalty towards Rome. These "barbarians" spent centuries catching up to what the Roman Empire had already achieved in the tech tree.

History channel documentary on the Dark Ages:

(bad picture quality unfortunately but an awesome documentary)
Click to expand...

No. What happened was a economic collaps. Other than a few exceptions the population at large was not replaced with "barbarians". Only in britain were the invaders numerous enough to actually matter genetically (and still after roman, anglosaxon, viking and norman invasions aswell as modern immigration notwithstanding it's clear that genetically speaking modern brits are still surprisingly celtic in ancestry). It was not that people forgot how to make pottery in britian, it was that potters in britain no longer had access to fine raw materials unless they lived next to them and no longer had any paying customers anyway so they had to start farming or starving. And likewise with any craft or profession that didn't have any immediate or military utility. But be that as it may, most of the former roman world did not loose technologies completely like britain lost pottery. The demand for skilled craftsmen and artisans and intellectuals were drastically reduced but they were still around in fewer numbers. Anyway, the point is that in civterms it is much more like loosing all specialist slots in your cities than it is about loosing techs.
 
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