Wiki update - Greek Strategy

What did you bulb when you won in 610?
 
Quite a few techs were bulbed: definitely Philosophy, Theology, Currency and Music (not in that order though). I also used two GP (artist and prophet) to send myself into a second GA in about 1500 just after I had built the Mausolleum of Mausollos. And I also used 2x GE to build the Parthenon and the Hagia Sophia at different stages.
 
Wow, stellar playing. I've never scored anywhere near 25000 as anyone but Persia or Rome.
 
Wow, I've done it just 2 days ago in a quite different way. Question: why did you expand so much on conquest, is it for the final score ?
 
It just seemed like the right thing to do, historically speaking.

I realise that there are probably plenty of ways of still reaching the Greek UHV more passively, but I challenged myself to try and circumnavigate as quickly as possible. And to do this I think requires taking some other city sites than just the Greek homeland area.

When did you circumnavigate?
 
My new best time for circumnavigation is 570AD. And this despite a stinking plague in about 400AD which spread to every single one of my citites. I think the plague slowed me down by around 4-5 turns. :mad:

This time I conquered even more territory, pretty closely resembling the Byzantine empire at much the same point in history.
 
Very nice. Couldn't have done that with my pacifisting--I just try to occupy territory that hasn't been done yet, but there's no good stone or marble up north and barbs are terrible. :lol:

I think Corinth is better (you sit on the marble so you get it automatically after masonry)--less production (due to loss of marble quarry, but you can always put a mine west of the iron) but you gain a fish and there's less overlap with Byzantion.
 
I circumnavigated surely after your date because I remember loosing Hierousalem flipping to Arabians. It was probably around the year 1000 AD but I wasn't really in a hurry since none I knew could compete with this goal. Rome, Egypt and Carthage all collapsed before the european civs spawn. I myself tried to recreate sort of a byzantine empire, but I mostly built it rather than conquered it. It included in order of foundation Athinai (Temple of Artemis, Parthenon, Sistine Chapel), Epidamnos (Oracle + Church of Nativity), Byzantion (Hagia Sophia, The Great Lighthouse), Ephesos (The Colossus, Mausoleum), Kyrene (The Great Library), Tyras. I also held Hierousalem until the advent of Arabia and in the last turns the second egyptian city, now indipendent, (I can never remember the name it's too hard) flipped to Kyrene's culture and Pompeii to Epidamnos'.
 
AnotherPacifist said:
Very nice. Couldn't have done that with my pacifisting--I just try to occupy territory that hasn't been done yet, but there's no good stone or marble up north and barbs are terrible. :lol:
Click to expand...

I'm starting to wonder about all this alleged "pacifisting". Your recent thread about Spain squatting on Lisbon and razing Marseilles and Bordeuax before they flip to France is hardly peaceful times. :p

Interesting call on Corinth. It is similar enough to Athens, but just slightly worse overall. The Athens tile is pretty useless if you found on Corinth instead for instance. Then there's the loss of time moving to Corinth and the slightly lower production capacity by losing the Marble quarry. The grassland hill to the W of the Iron is regularly used by my Athens, so it doesn't compensate really - I fully expect to use this tile. It only comes into use after the Oracle (when Athens is large enough) but for most of the mid-late Greek UHV game it is fully utilised by Athens. Overlap with Byzantion is never an issue for Athens, even when both cities are around size 10 or so.
 
blizzrd said:
Interesting call on Corinth. It is similar enough to Athens, but just slightly worse overall. The Athens tile is pretty useless if you found on Corinth instead for instance. Then there's the loss of time moving to Corinth and the slightly lower production capacity by losing the Marble quarry. The grassland hill to the W of the Iron is regularly used by my Athens, so it doesn't compensate really - I fully expect to use this tile. It only comes into use after the Oracle (when Athens is large enough) but for most of the mid-late Greek UHV game it is fully utilised by Athens. Overlap with Byzantion is never an issue for Athens, even when both cities are around size 10 or so.
Click to expand...

True, early game the overlap between the 2 cities isn't much of an issue.
However, if you build the Moai Statues, the overlap becomes a little more important later (see below and my most recent update on the squatting thread).

Note I'm currently on track to building ALL the wonders (including the Chinese ones such as Mausollos and Colosseum), maybe at the expense of missing the UHV about the Parthenon.
 
I didn't get all the wonders in any of my games. I almost always missed the Great Wall and the Colosseum, and once missed the Mausolleum too.

How do you get those (numbers) in the city name bars for growth and production turns to go?
 
AnotherPacifist said:
However, if you build the Moai Statues, the overlap becomes a little more important later (see below and my most recent update on the squatting thread).
Click to expand...
I built Moai and Colossus in Byzantion rathen than Athens each time though. I therefore give Byzantion access to all the overlap water tiles which works out just fine because Byzantion is usally about 2 population ahead of Athens anyway with the extra food resource.
 
I count 14 water tiles with Corinth while Byzantion only has 10. (I figure that maybe to have more great people later with more food (water) is important, so more water may be better.)
Corinth has 3 seafood, same as Byzantion. Corinth has 2 wines, while Byzantion has 2 sheep (about equivalent in terms of food value vs money). Corinth has the iron too. So overall Corinth should have the Moai.
 
It's not about Corinth though in my opinion, it is a choice between Athens and Byzantion. Byzantion > Athens for the Moai/Colossus as it has 3 coastal food resources compared to Athens with 2.

I get an Egyptian city to utilise that Fish. We both lose a Clam around the Greek peninsula either way.
 
blizzrd said:
It's not about Corinth though in my opinion, it is a choice between Athens and Byzantion. Byzantion > Athens for the Moai/Colossus as it has 3 coastal food resources compared to Athens with 2.

I get an Egyptian city to utilise that Fish. We both lose a Clam around the Greek peninsula either way.
Click to expand...

Why build an extra city (which is going to need to be defended against the African hordes and makes science more expensive) when you can have 3 seafood each with 2 cities?
I understand that with your technique eventually you're going to have 2 marbles anyway (from Egypt and Babylon), but until the trade route is open you can't access them. It takes 8-9 turns (with a single worker) to convert a mine into a quarry (not counting the turns needed for a road). The delay in getting the marble online maybe all that's standing between an Indian oracle and a Greek one in most games.
 
AnotherPacifist said:
Why build an extra city (which is going to need to be defended against the African hordes and makes science more expensive) when you can have 3 seafood each with 2 cities?
Click to expand...

The African hordes didn't trouble me in either of my last two games. I won the circumnavigation condition without seeing a single African barbarian before 600AD. The extra city in Egypt is more for the trade (-> science) than for the production. All those great resources on the coast of Egypt can't be reached from Thebes.

I understand that with your technique eventually you're going to have 2 marbles anyway (from Egypt and Babylon), but until the trade route is open you can't access them.
Click to expand...

Three actually, one in Bablyon also. So access via trade routes for Marble is not an issue, as each area (Greece, Egypt, Babylon) has it's own Marble.

It takes 8-9 turns (with a single worker) to convert a mine into a quarry (not counting the turns needed for a road). The delay in getting the marble online maybe all that's standing between an Indian oracle and a Greek one in most games.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you are using a single worker in the early turns, I have a pair together for all of the early turns (until at least the Oracle is built). These workers don't have much to do other than mines and quarries until I trade for some of the worker techs, which is only once I get Alphabet from either Carthage or Rome. So repeating worker action turns during those early turns replacing a mine with a quarry doesn't lose me anything really.
 
Just won the Greek UHV slightly later than you did, in 640. I could have done it much earlier had I micromanaged my research; I had the luck of getting a barbarian chariot on spawn. The chariot eventually reached level 6 by the end of the game and was a huge asset in taking out Hattusas (which was still around) as well as Egypt. My final score was just shy of 25000, just below my all-time high of 26500 with Rome.

I also use the Zoroastrianism mod, which I think makes it a tad easier; Susa is easier to break than Jerusalem, and it meant I had no incentive to keep what is otherwise a weak city in the form of Jerusalem. I did build Ikonion in Asia Minor after razing Gordion in order to build military, although I ended up not needing the troops after I finished the Great Wall in Byzantion. Had I not build Ikonion, my research would have been at least a few turns faster.
 
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