Which Civ5 civilisation had the biggest impact on history?

This is a very good discussion; I voted for Rome because of their contributions to architecture, their inventions, and the duration and size of their empire.

Probably second would be England the size of their empire as well as their ability to bring ideas to the entire world. Third the US for its melting pot experiment; its ability to integrate several differing cultures in to one.

Sonereal said:

China.

Every other answer is objectively wrong, and everybody who voted Greece are only doing so because of Eurocentrism, which is the only reason people are voting Spain as well.

Edit: And voting Spain as well

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China has made several contributions to society but Chinese have never really exported any of these ideas to other civilizations. Its always been other civs exploring and saying "hey we met this new civilization and they've made paper/gunpowder/etc. its pretty cool stuff".

Myth and Legend said:

Medieval:
Eastern Roman Empire (erroneously called Byzantium - culture, economics, christianity, halted areab and seljuk invasions)Renaissance:

England (Colonisation)

Industrialisation:

England (First to industrialize)

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I find it amusing that you call out Byzantium as being an erroneous name and then go on to claim that England did these things. England hasn't existed as a nation for hundreds of years, it was gone long before industrialisation even happened.

Resipsa said:

This is a very good discussion; I voted for Rome because of their contributions to architecture, their inventions, and the duration and size of their empire.

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China has made several contributions to society but Chinese have never really exported any of these ideas to other civilizations. Its always been other civs exploring and saying "hey we met this new civilization and they've made paper/gunpowder/etc. its pretty cool stuff".

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This is a very Western-centric way of viewing things, given several centuries of European history were driven by the desire to trade with China.

I also like that the Mayan, Aztec, the Incan, and Brazil somehow made it to the list, but the Zulu and Songhai are nowhere to be found as usual.

Sonereal said:

This is a very Western-centric way of viewing things, given several centuries of European history were driven by the desire to trade with China.

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Several centuries of European history were driven by the desire to hold Jerusalem - that doesn't make holding Jerusalem in itself an achievement. The desire to trade with China had its roots in a grand total of one Chinese accomplishment: the ability to farm silkworms, with the resulting products.

As politically correct as regionalism is these days, it's a simple fact that Western Europe's nations, ideas and accomplishments have dominated the world's culture and politics for the last three centuries.

If you want to define impressive in terms of cultural achievements such as monuments, then depending on your standard one of any number of societies could qualify (and in Asia I'd rank India above China, which was insular for a good deal of its history and which has had little lasting influence on much of the area in the map you provide outside the borders of modern China itself - religions exported from India not only hugely influenced China itself, but also Southeast Asia, and as has already been mentioned Indian cultural developments define the culture of SE Asia to this day). However, if you want to define "impressive" in terms of global influence, Eurocentrism is entirely justified because we're living in the aftermath of a European-dominated world.

PhilBowles said:

Several centuries of European history were driven by the desire to hold Jerusalem - that doesn't make holding Jerusalem in itself an achievement. The desire to trade with China had its roots in a grand total of one Chinese accomplishment: the ability to farm silkworms, with the resulting products.

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Several centuries weren't driven by a desire to hold Jerusalem. Monarchs weren't waking up across Europe actively trying to grab Jerusalem.

As politically correct as regionalism is these days, it's a simple fact that Western Europe's nations, ideas and accomplishments have dominated the world's culture and politics for the last three centuries.

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Out of six thousand years of civilization.

Eurocentrism is entirely justified because we're living in the aftermath of a European-dominated world.

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Too bad that Europe has only "dominated" for the last two hundred years.

Again. It comes down to India, China, and maybe Egypt and Babylon. Rome should not be considered in the running, and people voting America are just damn silly.

Sonereal; I understand you dont like the "eurocentrism" idea, but from a historical perspective you cant defend your viewpoints. You say that europe only had a global influence for three thousand years out of six, but who then had a global influence the other three?
Thats right. None.
You also say that europe only dominated for two hundred years and I want to give you the same answer; Who dominated for the other 5800 years? On a global scale?
The answer is still; None.

Its the same answer you give the people who cant decide what culture that have been the most dominating culture throughout the history of mankind... Most people would say Chinese (from a per human being NUMBERS point of view) or Greece (from pure influence point of view), but the truth is that USA is the most dominant culture the world have ever seen. Its the ONLY truly global culture, and it is not going away. Ever. It can only transform now. Its too late to "pick something else", just like its too late to choose something other than Greece for europe as a baseline culture.

Its very much "who is first" in these regards.
Sadly I might say... I would have liked my countrys culture to be the dominant one, or one day to be...

Sonereal said:

Again. It comes down to India, China, and maybe Egypt and Babylon. Rome should not be considered in the running, and people voting America are just damn silly.

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I already wrote about China in my last post. Just being impressive doesn't directly result in a civ having a huge impact on history. Sure, silkworms and ancient ingenuity were great. But it's not the Chinese who were constantly trying to dominate the world economy, it's not Mandate of Heaven that's at the foundation for the modern political system, the United States didn't fight for independence from China, and finally - it's not the Chinese language that we use here on Civfanatics. Of course I`m not claiming that civs like China didn't have impact at all, but there are good reasons why it's not a top choice in this case.

PhilBowles said:

Several centuries of European history were driven by the desire to hold Jerusalem - that doesn't make holding Jerusalem in itself an achievement. The desire to trade with China had its roots in a grand total of one Chinese accomplishment: the ability to farm silkworms, with the resulting products.

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Europeans imported huge amounts of different goods from China, to the point that the Europeans had a lot of trouble finding goods to give to the Chinese in exchange for the Chinese goods.

Securion said:

Its the same answer you give the people who cant decide what culture that have been the most dominating culture throughout the history of mankind... Most people would say Chinese (from a per human being NUMBERS point of view) or Greece (from pure influence point of view), but the truth is that USA is the most dominant culture the world have ever seen. Its the ONLY truly global culture, and it is not going away. Ever. It can only transform now. Its too late to "pick something else", just like its too late to choose something other than Greece for europe as a baseline culture.

Its very much "who is first" in these regards.
Sadly I might say... I would have liked my countrys culture to be the dominant one, or one day to be...

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That's what they thought about the Roman Empire

Sagax said:

But it's not the Chinese who were constantly trying to dominate the world economy, it's not Mandate of Heaven that's at the foundation for the modern political system, the United States didn't fight for independence from China, and finally - it's not the Chinese language that we use here on Civfanatics. Of course I`m not claiming that civs like China didn't have impact at all, but there are good reasons why it's not a top choice in this case.

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The Chinese didn't need to dominate a world economy when most of that economy already revolved around trading with China.

Secondly, the Mandate of Heaven is just an idea of legitimacy, and the fact that Chinese dynasties often lost the mandate under circumstances often similar to circumstances that led to similar breakdowns of western governments means that there isn't a gigantic difference in the first place.

Or are you saying that China derived legitimacy from a different source than most European governments prior to 1800, namely a higher power?

Thirdly, the United States exists in the first place because the English wanted to trade with China.

It seems like Westernphiles just can't accept that their idea of what constitutes "great impact" is setup to favor Western governments. Ideas are cute, but hard trade and demographic trends are more important and always will be more important than ideas.

You say that europe only had a global influence for three thousand years out of six, but who then had a global influence the other three?

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*Three hundred.

Secondly, China. Even then, the first century of that three hundred years of rising power was still an unequal relationship between China and the Western colonial powers. The shift wasn't decided until the Opium War.

The point of my post was that Europeans of course will think three centuries is a lot of time in the grand scheme of things, since it was only in the last three centuries that Europe actually started to matter. And I do mean start, not "completely dominated the world".

You also say that europe only dominated for two hundred years and I want to give you the same answer; Who dominated for the other 5800 years? On a global scale?
The answer is still; None.

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Tell me which parts of the world mattered six thousand years ago outside of the pockets of "civilization".

Is this a serious post? I really can't tell if you're screwing with me, or you're really that ignorant and prone to goal post shifting.

Its the same answer you give the people who cant decide what culture that have been the most dominating culture throughout the history of mankind... Most people would say Chinese (from a per human being NUMBERS point of view) or Greece (from pure influence point of view), but the truth is that USA is the most dominant culture the world have ever seen. Its the ONLY truly global culture, and it is not going away. Ever. It can only transform now. Its too late to "pick something else", just like its too late to choose something other than Greece for europe as a baseline culture.

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#Murica.

First of all, what American culture? You mean the one that has only started to take shape since the 1920s, and only began the mass exportation we see today in the last six decades?

Secondly, Greece isn't a baseli-oh. I get it. You are screwing with me.

west india man said:

That's what they thought about the Roman Empire

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The Roman Empire was very much influenced by the Greeks. You can see them as a continuation, and/or enhancer, of the Greek ideals.
Even the "barbaric" northern states had to accept their influence even though they, at the time, were fiercely opposed to it. They even participated in the end of the Romans... Still, they had no choice in what culture they would adopt in the future... Just like we dont have a say in what culture we will adopt.

The strongest culture ALWAYS dominate and subdue ALL other cultures. We can see that as an empirical and historical fact. there simply are no exceptions in the long run.
And is there anyone who would argue with what culture is the strongest today?
Didnt think so.

Securion said:

The Roman Empire was very much influenced by the Greeks. You can see them as a continuation, and/or enhancer, of the Greek ideals.

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Securion said:

continuation, and/or enhancer, of the Greek ideals.

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Securion said:

enhancer

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Securion said:

The strongest culture ALWAYS dominate and subdue ALL other cultures. We can see that as an empirical and historical fact. there simply are no exceptions in the long run.
And is there anyone who would argue with what culture is the strongest today?
Didnt think so.

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That is patently not true, considering the incredibly strong culture of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and it's unfortunate lack of means of exporting the glorious revolution.

west india man said:

That is patently not true, considering the incredibly strong culture of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and it's unfortunate lack of means of exporting the glorious revolution.

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Clearly the DPRK will have no choice to adopt American-Greco-Roman culture because Muricagreme#1

Mexican border cities keep flipping due to American culture pressure. Americans come in. Texas comes out. You can't explain that.

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea will never adapt to those evil imperialist cultures! The Democratic People's Republic of Korea has a great and strong culture that will soon dominate the entire world, and make the world see how glorious the Juche ideals are. The culture of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is independent of anything else, and will always be a glorious, independent culture, which depends on no other culture to exist. The culture of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea has been destined to rule the world since the great and wonderful birth of our glorious leader and Eternal President, Kim il-Sung

DPRK culture outweighs petty American tourism stat. DPRK is impregnable, like Glorious Leader.

The DPRK, by its very existence, has influenced East Asia greatly. Every decision has been made with the DPRK in mind. Therefore, DPRK>America.

west india man said:

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea will never adapt to those evil imperialist cultures! The Democratic People's Republic of Korea has a great and strong culture that will soon dominate the entire world, and make the world see how glorious the Juche ideals are. The culture of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is independent of anything else, and will always be a glorious, independent culture, which depends on no other culture to exist. The culture of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea has been destined to rule the world since the great and wonderful birth of our glorious leader and Eternal President, Kim il-Sung

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We will immediately erase all American hollywood culture from the internet.
All hail the Fat Kid!

Sonereal said:

DPRK culture outweighs petty American tourism stat. DPRK is impregnable, like Glorious Leader.

The DPRK, by its very existence, has influenced East Asia greatly. Every decision has been made with the DPRK in mind. Therefore, DPRK>America.

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He speaks the truth!

Way to promote damaging stereotypes, bro.

Sonereal said:

DPRK culture outweighs petty American tourism stat. DPRK is impregnable, like Glorious Leader.

The DPRK, by its very existence, has influenced East Asia greatly. Every decision has been made with the DPRK in mind. Therefore, DPRK>America.

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The great and wonderful birth of our Eternal President caused a fertility boom throughout the world, and throughout Eastern Asia especially, where we see over half of the world population live today. When our glorious Eternal President was born, the world population was under two billion, but now it has reached seven billion, even with all the American imperialist wars tragically wiping out large parts of the population.

Securion said:

We will immediately erase all American hollywood culture from the internet.
All hail the Fat Kid!

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What is hollywood? Who is the fat kid?