Russia kicking my Butt?

Humantorch said:

The diplomacy hit for capturing an enemy city is the same whether they backstab you or not. DoFing with a civ who decides to be a jerk and get denounced by everyone will drag you down and get you embargoed in the world congress and all your luxes banned.

You have NOTHING to lose by abstaining from DoF and everything to gain.

P.S. having to spam military units to fend of invasions because you got to close to a spazzed out civ will impact your science/gold/production.

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Who says you need to take cities? That's nowhere in the mix here, and not what we're talking about.

Why are you choosing poor friends? I didn't say accept every DoF, I said look at the diplomacy and be in the "popular" group.

Why are you getting anything passed against you in the world congress? Your friends will vote no. You control city states, right? They vote no too. I've never been embargoed, not once. Occasionally a lux will slip thru, but only because I'm pushing my ideology or religion thru and I can't spare the votes.

I'm telling you that what you are proposing is fine when you do not understand the mechanics of diplomacy, but as soon as you figure them out, it is a poor decision to be the lone wolf.

People that fear Dof because of backstab makes no sense. Dof do not increase your chance to be at war, a backstab is just a dow while under a dof. If you fear backstabs why arent you afraid from the dow a neutral civ can make to begin with ?

On the other hand while the dof is active the civ can get you a ton of gold and some ras.

Really, as long as you pay attention and dont dof the guy everyone hates, you should accept dof and take advantage of it. And cover your back... like you would without the dof.

I'm already done with her sh** and I've just started playing lol. Currently playing a game with Egypt on a continents map. Wanted to be fairly peaceful after 2 domination victories to brush up on my combat/war skills.

Not 15 turns in she immediately moves a settler right next to my only other lux resources incense. Nope. I say "Don't settle cities next to me," and move a unit in capturing distance of it. Of course I get the "what do you think I'm weak?" responce, and an instant settle. RAAAAAAAGE. Hahaha

So I immediately go after the war chariot, declare war, and start picking off her workers then pillaging. I eventually brought together a weak army and had crippled her enough to where she finally traded for it. Then... Burned it to the ground.

Oh, also... 2 turns later she ask for a declaration of friendship hahahaha. I was laughing my ass off!!! She is currently paying me gpt for the incense she tried stealing lol.

Edit: Would like to say I've previously already had games that she's pissed me off.. All of my cultural victories, shes been the main deterrent constantly denouncing me for no reason, and DOW for no reason. She makes friends with everyone I'm already not having good relations with AFTER THE FACT for some reason.

Chum said:

You need to monitor global relations very well, but there's absolutely no reason to treat every game as "you vs the world."

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I agree with everything you've said (or pretty much), but have to say I also find Cathy and Dido rather fickle.
And if I'm honest, I play nice in the early game but thoroughly enjoy being a horror when I have the troops/tech to back it up (hence staying in G&K). But I totally agree with what you say in principle, diplomacy is an integral part of the game.

His game is on G&K. Fun to come back one year sooner.

Scotch0101 said:

In all my games with Russia they kick my butt. I was just walking through their territory (open borders) and a stopped in one of their cities, I clicked 'next turn', and immediately she declares war on me !?!?! Catherine really likes to backstab you. We were friends since we met....like 3500 B.C.....she declares war on me in 1880. Is her back stab level really high or something?

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Are you Ukrainian?

Acken said:

People that fear Dof because of backstab makes no sense. Dof do not increase your chance to be at war, a backstab is just a dow while under a dof. If you fear backstabs why arent you afraid from the dow a neutral civ can make to begin with ?

On the other hand while the dof is active the civ can get you a ton of gold and some ras.

Really, as long as you pay attention and dont dof the guy everyone hates, you should accept dof and take advantage of it. And cover your back... like you would without the dof.

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Well said. Without a DoF you won't get a research agreement. You can swerve their requests for freebies- just never trust them. Always keep your military at its peak (not heaps of units but very good ones) and watch the indicators. Spies and diplomats are invaluable.

Take what you can from them when you can. If they declare war so what- you have lost nothing.

Now, you'll never be annoyed by Catherine.

Scotch0101 said:

DoF's are beneficial, but are also asking for it too.

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I don't really think this is correct. I've seen no evidence that any civs are more likely to declare war on their friends than on non-friends. When you get backstabbed by your friend, he/she probably would have declared war on you even if you hadn't been friends.

And the backstabber will take a diplomatic hit with the entire known world for doing so. What's not to like?

NASAROG said:

Are you Ukrainian?

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I'm American....but I'm not all that fond of what Russia's doing right now......spose that could be influencing my judgments of the civ in the game too.........

Scotch0101 said:

I'm American....but I'm not all that fond of what Russia's doing right now......spose that could be influencing my judgments of the civ in the game too.........

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I meant that as a funny...

Oh, ok

I thought you were serious

Chum said:

Who says you need to take cities? That's nowhere in the mix here, and not what we're talking about.

Why are you choosing poor friends? I didn't say accept every DoF, I said look at the diplomacy and be in the "popular" group.

Why are you getting anything passed against you in the world congress? Your friends will vote no. You control city states, right? They vote no too. I've never been embargoed, not once. Occasionally a lux will slip thru, but only because I'm pushing my ideology or religion thru and I can't spare the votes.

I'm telling you that what you are proposing is fine when you do not understand the mechanics of diplomacy, but as soon as you figure them out, it is a poor decision to be the lone wolf.

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There's no point in attacking a city unless you plan on annexing it or razing it. The ai will never give you peace unless you take a city or have more units then them. It's a lot quicker to take their military strength down a peg by knocking a city out.

There's no reason to be so hostile and insulting because you have a different opinion.

bro

Humantorch said:

There's no point in attacking a city unless you plan on annexing it or razing it. The ai will never give you peace unless you take a city or have more units then them. It's a lot quicker to take their military strength down a peg by knocking a city out.

There's no reason to be so hostile and insulting because you have a different opinion.

bro

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You're not even sure what you're arguing anymore. Lets start over.

You said there's no reason to DoF with anyone ever because it gets you backstabbed and nothing else.

I say that's ridiculous, and there are indeed tangible benefits to DoF, which include, but are not limited to - better proposals from said friends in WC, RA's, better trade value and the ability to trade lump sums of gold, as well as the possibility of a greatly reduced warmongering penalty with that civ.

You then go on some tangent about how if they backstab you you have to take a warmongering penalty from capturing their city, which has nothing to do with any of our previous discussion and now you're saying that there's no point in attacking a city, and that you also need to take a city in order to get peace. Hogwash. Utter hogwash. I've been at war with the entire world before. And I get peace deals from everyone eventually, regardless of whether I am personally stomping them or not.

Being backstabbed is not the problem you make it out to be. It most certainly is not a problem worth never being friends with anyone. Don't be some chump with an archer in each city in 1850 and the wrong ideology from the rest of the world. There's reason why you're being backstabbed. Civ flavor is a minor, minor part of that. Most of it is your own actions.

Some DoFs are worth breaking when all the civilizations can make a dow for killing off a civilization..