Problem with Espionage

G

grzybek

The Mad Sciencist
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
244
Location
Szczecin, Poland
I have to admit that I have a problem with espionage.

Basically I like this feature, but it has changed the game in one aspect that I cannot accept. Since G&K I have trouble wining science victory on Emperor - mostly due to other CiV stealing techs from each other so no matter how big Tech advantage I make before Espionage - once spies are available they catch up with me and then go even higher.

Usually, at the end of the game there is 1 or 2 civs which are around 95% while I'm falling behind 7-8%, I get info that my tech was stolen every few turns and my top spies in my cities don't actually help a lot.

My opinion - Tech stealing is, now, even worse than tech trading from Civ IV, as in Civ IV you had to have a tech on your own to perform a trade - now you just steal from everyone.

What's your opinion on that matter?
 
You can't outrun someone with tech steals, you can only be second best, outrunning requires that the civ is better than you at doing science, so maybe it's time to change your focus and get better at the science game.
 
I actually rarely tech steal because I either get ahead of the other civs or they have constructed buildings that prevent any early stealing (waiting for 115 turns). I mainly use them to gather information about the civ I'm spying and to share intrigue with allies or to set up civs against one another.
 
I agree. Can't get out teched by Espionage, but it makes the tech race stupid as no matter how fast I discover things they steal it from me right away so they catch up with me at no cost.
 
Build constables and police stations then the National Intelligence Agency, and (if needed) the Great Firewall. Having all of those slows down tech stealing by a whooping 80% in all your cities and 99.9% in the city which has the firewall.

As far as using spies defensively, I think there's a bug in the game. The game states that each rank of spy is 10% better at catching and killing enemy spies, but a recruit is just a 33% chance, an agent is 36%, and a special agent is almost 40%. The way I read it, it should be 33%, 43%, 53%. Basically, it seems like it should be adding 10% to the total, not the existing chance.
 
the more spread out your science output is the slower they will steal it. if the bulk of your science is all coming from your capital its going to be a real nice target. in that case you gotta get your spy leveled up to the highest level ASAP then put him on defense and prioritize the spy buildings
 
Tech stealing is only effective in the early espionage period. After that it becomes pretty unreliable/takes too long. Once civs start getting Constabularies and Police Stations, it generally takes way too long, and is risky if that civ has a spy stationed in their best science city. You should be doing the same: build Constabularies and Police Stations, maybe even get National Intelligence Agency, and put a spy in your capital (where most enemy spies tend to hang out) and you've basically locked down your civ from tech steal.
 
When I have won the Science victory on high difficulty levels before G&K, the AI civs were almost always ahead of me in technology... the key to winning was that I usually had much better production infrastructure, and so could bang out those expensive spaceship parts quickly once I had the tech, while the AI futzed around for a very long time after finishing Apollo Program without building anything.

With the AI able to catch up in technology due to Espionage, good production infrastructure should be even more important.
 
I wish there were a penalty for sharing intrigue. I always share it no matter what, even telling my enemies what my friends are about to do.
 
How do you share intrigue? I haven't found anything in the game concerning that.
 
When you recieve the notification detailing "Bismarck is preparing something against Polynesia" then you can click on the circle and it will take you to a screen with Polynesia where you can tell Kamekameha (or whatever his name is) that Bismarck is wanting to whoop him. It will net you a bright green positive modifier!
 
Under the "discuss" option alongside the "declaration of friendship" and "denounce" buttons. Only comes up when your spy has some to share though.
 
I agree spies are too powerful. In other threads, I propose the idea that every time someone wants to steal a tech, that player should pay up 500 gold for a chance to steal and 1000 gold for guarantee steal (either way may lose the spy). This should balance the game because a player needs to "invest" in tech stealing instead of getting stuff for free.

Unless they fix this, I feel like not enabling spies in gameplay.
 
Thanks for the reply's to my question - I'll have to try that.
 
This is really an emotional preference issue. I love getting stolen from because it means the game is keeping more heat on me (or to laugh at how far back the AI leaves the bottom of the tree at points). But I can see how a lot of players will just find it unpalatable.

Best solution is probably an additional setting, besides No Espianage, of turning of Stealing but leaving the rest.

In the meantime, there's the firewall. Build it of you want it.
 
I had this problem in my first game.
Second game I built constables, and police stations and the tech rate stealing dropped to about 1/3 of what it was before. Adding in a lv 2 spy dropped it to around 1/5.

Instead of having a tech stolen every 2 turns by almost every nation in the game it was only a few nations every 5 or 8 turns. Much more manageable

I had a side question: when a spy is killed, does the civ get a replacement spy?
 
GhostSalsa said:
Best solution is probably an additional setting, besides No Espianage, of turning of Stealing but leaving the rest.
Click to expand...
What, so espionage could be even more barebones? Besides, not everything can be an additional setting/option.
 
Right -- I want even more espionage, too! That's why I'd argue for a setting for the disinclined, rather than toning down stealing or 'balancing'.
 
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