WTF combat??? (not another ragepost)

Okay, so I was attacking a city with 4 catapults and about 5 other units, while the enenmy city had 5 units as well. I had more advanced units (maceman, catapults), while the enemy city had less (archer, axemen). I sent all my catapults to deal some collateral damage and then I attacked the city and... Lost. I spent 4 catapults on one city and attacked it with more advanced units, but still lost... So, do I really need to make 20 units for every single city, that I want to conquer or am I missing something?

This was probably exceptionally bad luck, what were the actual probabilities for the battles?
Macemen with city raider promotions can usually kill archers easily even without siege.

There are some rules of thumb in strategy articles about "early rush", maybe also articles about using siege.

What promotions did you give your units attacking the enemy city? If the enemy city has a high defense as a result of walls/castle, your tiny army might not be enough. Also culture adds a defensive bonus. Cities with high culture/walls/castle need a good number of units to take even with catapults. It does suck but sometimes even with cats an even number of units to the enemies won't work. Sometimes overwhelming force is required, not a one for one trade off.

Did you bombard the city first to remove the culture defense bonus? Often, even with superior attacking forces, failing to do so will give the defenders enough of a bonus to let them win.

s.bernbaum said:

Did you bombard the city first to remove the culture defense bonus? Often, even with superior attacking forces, failing to do so will give the defenders enough of a bonus to let them win.

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The units inside the city gain a fortified defense bonus. Add this with the defense bonus from culture/Walls/castle. Use catapults and/or trebuchets to bombard city defense to 0 or close to it. Then have your siege weapons attack followed by macemen or whatever offensive units you have.

Yep, another step backward from SMAX.

As a rough rule of thumb I'd say one suicide/collateral siege for each strong defender (like longbow), one attacker for each defender and about three extra for defense of the wounded stack/attackers.

So for the case above 4 cats and 5 attackers would have been the minimum, which usually is enough when one has more advanced units...
I can't really believe losing all those units to mere archers, but they would not be able to take the city, if a few 80+ odds battles are lost.

Exactly what were the defenders, and what were the promotions on your Macemen?

Did you bombard the culture down to 0% before attacking? If not, what was the culture level?

On a hill? Protective archers?

If the first couple battles go badly, lose a unit while doing little to no damage, a small stack can easily prove to be insufficient.

Even with bad luck, if one suicides 4 or 5 catapults against, say 3 archers and two axemen, these defenders will be so battered by collateral that even with high cultural defense macemen should be able to kill them.

Try espionage first next time If You have a mortal enemy don't hesitate to assign all of Your EP ( screw demographics and other stuff xD ) to him than send in a spy first to start a revolt - not only this will damage the units stationed in the city but will get rid of a city defenses, than send in catapults and than proceed with the usuall CR 1/2/3 onslaught It might be a good idea to assing highest EP priority to someone You are planning to attack (or You suspect will attack You) early I think when You've scouted Monty as Your neighbour at the beginning of the game for example You know what to do Oh and another thing , when at peace send spies anyway to spread Your culture in a border city/cities You are planning to hit, this will help a lot with the revolt mission, having the same state religion as Your enemy also helps Your spies Stationary spies also get a substantial bonus with missions so You might as well keep them in Your future enemy border cities but there's always a risk they can get caught.

AdamCrock said:

Try espionage first next time If You have a mortal enemy don't hesitate to assign all of Your EP ( screw demographics and other stuff xD ) to him than send in a spy first to start a revolt - not only this will damage the units stationed in the city but will get rid of a city defenses, than send in catapults and than proceed with the usuall CR 1/2/3 onslaught .

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Espionage revolts don't damage anything, they just remove culture/building defenses and disable the city for a turn.

Screenshots or didnt happen.

I save the game before attacking the city to make sure I actually win it. If I dont, I reload and pull-back/wait. Cheating? Meh ...

Who cares about you cheat a video game. A "Chris Hansen" for game cheaters?