Stealing Art

My girlfriend was asking whether she can use her spies to steal Great Works (of Art).

That got us thinking that it would be a pretty cool mechanic for the culture player. If the theming bonus is important to a culture victory, it would make sense to (apart from trading) be able to acquire certain pieces of art through means other than warfare.

What do you think?
Would it be a fun mini game, finding and stealing pieces of art with your spies?
Or would it be an annoying mechanic that drives you up the wall when your favourite "Starry Night" from Van Gogh goes missing from your Louvre in the middle of the night?

If it were to happen anywhere near a quarter as frequent as all the AI city state coups I'd rather pass on the mechanic altogether. It would be too frustrating. I'd prefer if this kind of theft were limited to situations that the player could easily foresee and reliably guard against. (This doesn't have to mean only war though.)

I_qua_I said:

If it were to happen anywhere near a quarter as frequent as all the AI city state coups I'd rather pass on the mechanic altogether. It would be too frustrating. I'd prefer if this kind of theft were limited to situations that the player could easily foresee and reliably guard against. (This doesn't have to mean only war though.)

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Chances are that stealing a painting or whatever would work the same way as stealing a piece of tech, just move your average spoi to the place with the art you want to steal, do something in the menu to be able to steal said art, wait a few turns, and if your spoi wasn't killed by another agent, you have yourself the art.

SmithRobloxian said:

Chances are that stealing a painting or whatever would work the same way as stealing a piece of tech, just move your average spoi to the place with the art you want to steal, do something in the menu to be able to steal said art, wait a few turns, and if your spoi wasn't killed by another agent, you have yourself the art.

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It will be pretty disappointing if that is the case.

Seems pretty anti-fun. This mechanic works with tech because you aren't losing anything; the AI gets a small advantage in their tech, and while that sucks, it doesn't hurt you anymore than it would if that Civ got it the regular way. However, Great Works represent a large investment of resources to generate, so the be able to steal then in a matter of turns just seems silly.

I think we had this discussion before, and the point was raised that if you steal someone else's art, secretly, with your spy and then put it on display...that kinda gives away who stole it. Also, it's not a fun mechanic to *lose* something in Civ; where tech stealing means they take your tech, you don't actually lose out on anything, but losing something as important as a great person, especially when there's nothing you can do to defend against it, is just not fun.

I like the idea of being able to take them in war however, that still sounds like fun (as much as war can ever be fun i.e. when you're winning it.)

+ It's a way to counteract Culture Victories which I would applause.
+ It's sounds realistic, but in effect, you would destroy the art rather than display it in your museums. But it might work across Ideologies. Did James Bond ever steal a Famous Painting from Moscow to be then displayed in London? [It does seem possible that you get the Great Works by conquest though?]

- It's not fun if it happens to you/civs gang up on you!!

That's the biggest (and only) point speaking against it. For this to work, you must need to make the chance really low or forstall the stealing until appropriate defense can be built up (i.e. constabularies). But then again it's a "must do" and not fun. So I'd say we won't see that.

What I however can see is an option to trade these Great Works. Run out of money? Sell your famous painting for a handout. Or maybe just loan it for a 30 turns.

mitsho said:

What I however can see is an option to trade these Great Works. Run out of money? Sell your famous painting for a handout. Or maybe just loan it for a 30 turns.

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This sounds like it would be an interesting (and fun!) addition. On the flip side, I wouldn't mind getting rid of my surplus gold to buy a great work.

I_qua_I said:

This sounds like it would be an interesting (and fun!) addition. On the flip side, I wouldn't mind getting rid of my surplus gold to buy a great work.

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Definitively a good idea, but I want the price that scale during era, unlike luxes.
240g is game changing early game and next to nothing beyond renaissance.
If it is worth 500g or something it would be to abusable to sell them while it represents a lot and buy them all back when 500g are made in 5 turns.

It would be a nice adjusting variable to survive too harsh a war by selling all your arts, I like it though!