UU buffs

I find some civs to be underwhelming (what is Ghandi good for, anway?); buffing their UUs would be a good place to start for balancing purposes. Here are some of my ideas:

1. Egyptian War Chariot: I've only ever built one of these, as an early rush is just incongruous with Egypt's UA and optimal playstyle; hence, a little buff would not be amiss. --Add Accuracy 1--

2. Indian War Elephant: Much the same as above, India's UA does not encourage early warmongering (indeed, it inhibits it). Making the Indian UU more expensive than the unit it replaces only adds insult to injury. -- Cost reduction from 310 to 290 hammers --

3. Carthaginian Forest Elephant: Carthage is like Byzantium in that its UA and suite of UUs are somewhat incohesive (they encourage contrary playstyles). Also, the opportunity cost of these elephants is often too high to be viable (especially with the higher price). -- Cost reduction from 480 to 440 hammers--

4. Greek Hoplite: The Hoplite is already rather powerful, but I prefer UUs with historical flavor and advantages that carry through upgrades (such as the double healing rate of immortals). --Negates enemy flanking bonuses on defense--

5. Roman Ballista: Much the same as the Hoplite, I would appreciate a little historical flavor from the ballista. The ballista should excel at both city siege and unit bombardment (think of the Korean Hwacha). -- No bonus v. cities; Ranged CS from 10 to 16--

6. Japanese Samurai: Imagine if this unit did justice to the stature of the samurai of the Sengoku Jidai. Imagine if it played to the strengths of the Japanese UA. Blitz is never all that useful for melee units, but it could be extremely powerful for Japan. --Replace Shock 1 with Blitz; CS 21 to 23?--

7. German Panzer: This seems a no brainer in terms of historical accuracy. --Add Blitz; CS 80 to 75?--

Thoughts?

P.S. Ghandi's UA could also use a boost.

The slinger needs a buff. I feel sad for the slinger because the Inca are so good but their UU sucks. My Idea is to make them composite bowmen instead of archers, and give them +2 ranged combat strength and give them the ability to shoot over hills and forests.

theguy8882 said:

The slinger needs a buff. I feel sad for the slinger because the Inca are so good but their UU sucks. My Idea is to make them composite bowmen instead of archers, and give them +2 ranged combat strength and give them the ability to shoot over hills and forests.

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I agree that the slinger is terrible, but the Inca are very powerful anyway. Perhaps OP

I say no to giving War Chariot shock I, because it, for no good reason, upgrades to knight... A MELEE MOUNTED UNIT. Therefore, ranged promotions don't last much longer than a milkshake.

Well accuracy I would make them to similar to horse archers. Give them the retreat promotion instead like the slinger. Or simply change war chariots into a melee chariot unit with bonus against warriors & swords.

Agreed with samurai buff. Blitz would be enough though as it has a good synergy with their UA.

Anyway I would suggest u check out VEM. They have buffed many UUs such as hopelites, samurai, war chariots etc. See my signature to find more about the mod.

BrentH said:

I agree that the slinger is terrible, but the Inca are very powerful anyway. Perhaps OP

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They are actually decent units that do great when you are on the defensive. I recently fought a war where the AI outnumbered me 8:1, but thanks to their evasive abilites, he didn't even tough a single slinger.

I think their only problem is the fact that composite bows hit the field rather early (and that you will focus on that tech as inca anyway). But as said above, do the inca really need a superb UU when they already have mountain movement advantage?

BrentH said:

4. Greek Hoplite: The Hoplite is already rather powerful, but I prefer UUs with historical flavor and advantages that carry through upgrades (such as the double healing rate of immortals). --Negates enemy flanking bonuses on defense--

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If you want historical flavour, immunity to flanking is exactly the wrong thing to give hoplites. They were extremely sensitive to flank attacks, while strong on frontal attacks.

Babri said:

Well accuracy I would make them to similar to horse archers. Give them the retreat promotion instead like the slinger. Or simply change war chariots into a melee chariot unit with bonus against warriors & swords.

Agreed with samurai buff. Blitz would be enough though as it has a good synergy with their UA.

Anyway I would suggest u check out VEM. They have buffed many UUs such as hopelites, samurai, war chariots etc. See my signature to find more about the mod.

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Thanks for the input! I completely forgot the hunnic horse archer has accuracy 1. In that case retreating like the slinger would be nice.

Nurgle84 said:

If you want historical flavour, immunity to flanking is exactly the wrong thing to give hoplites. They were extremely sensitive to flank attacks, while strong on frontal attacks.

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True.. I was thinking of the battle of Thermopylae at the time, but I suppose it was the terrain that was responsible for the Spartan (tactical) victory. Maybe a 10% defense bonus would be more appropriate.

BrentH said:

4. Greek Hoplite: The Hoplite is already rather powerful, but I prefer UUs with historical flavor and advantages that carry through upgrades (such as the double healing rate of immortals). --Negates enemy flanking bonuses on defense--

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That's a nice ability for a UU to have, but too strong for a unit that already has a strength boost, and not very fitting for the hoplite - cavalry was hardly used when the hoplites were a dominant fighting force - they were a primary fighting unit rather than anti-flanking units. That ability would best-suit the Tercio.

5. Roman Ballista: Much the same as the Hoplite, I would appreciate a little historical flavor from the ballista. The ballista should excel at both city siege and unit bombardment (think of the Korean Hwacha). -- No bonus v. cities; Ranged CS from 10 to 16--

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I don't think duplicating an existing UU on an earlier unit adds any flavour. I agree the ballista's boring, but this isn't an appropriate fix.

6. Japanese Samurai: Imagine if this unit did justice to the stature of the samurai of the Sengoku Jidai. Imagine if it played to the strengths of the Japanese UA. Blitz is never all that useful for melee units, but it could be extremely powerful for Japan. --Replace Shock 1 with Blitz; CS 21 to 23?--

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Not sure why this would be representative of the Samurai, other than simply making them scarier.

7. German Panzer: This seems a no brainer in terms of historical accuracy. --Add Blitz; CS 80 to 75?--

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Blitz is just the name of an ability; it's not particularly "historically accurate" as a representation of the Blitzkrieg. The existing ability, while weak, is actually better in that regard, since blitzkrieg tactics relied on the tank formations' ability to move rapidly. +2 movement, like Companion Cavalry, perhaps?

<QUOTE>4. Greek Hoplite: The Hoplite is already rather powerful, but I prefer UUs with historical flavor and advantages that carry through upgrades (such as the double healing rate of immortals). --Negates enemy flanking bonuses on defense--<QUOTE>

I'd have some sort of 'Phalanx' promotion which works like Discipline, only carry-over. In addition, Hoplites have more flanking penalty (not carry-over). A phalanx's most egregious weakness is on its flanks, after all.

A good upgrade to the chariot UUs would be for them to upgrade to crossbows.

Hah, check my Ballista mod. To be honest I am shocked by its huge popularity...

Buffs Roman Ballista unit, which previously was almost indifferent from Catapult. Now, Ballista can fire without set - up - this is interesting from gameplay point of view and historically accurate, because Roman ballistas were relatively easy to transport and use (they were even used to fighting with street riots - try that with Catapult!)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=239776898

Also check my other particurarly succesful 'weak uniques buffs mods'.

On the other hand, there is a mod which adds Phalanx promotion to Hoplite (+10% combat bonus when adjacent to another friendly unit).

I like the idea for Samurai. Blitz instead of Shock and maybe Generals promotion.

slinger and war chariot are already strong. To those who think they're weak: have you really tried to use and abuse them? Or, got caught in the crunch of your normal choosing what to build, and instead chose to prioritize granaries, lighthouses, or that wonder? Building even a single wonder early in the game means that's a half dozen less units (including settlers) that you missed out on. If you don't build at least half dozen of a UU and take full advantage of it, I find it hard to give credence to the argument that it's weak.

Slinger, yes, is weak, but the promo compensates for this. And, a line of Gatlings (with Withdraw Before Melee) are amazing.

Personally I'd vote to ensure all UUs get a free promotion along with whatever stat or special ability it may get.

Blitz is just the name of an ability; it's not particularly "historically accurate" as a representation of the Blitzkrieg. The existing ability, while weak, is actually better in that regard, since blitzkrieg tactics relied on the tank formations' ability to move rapidly. +2 movement, like Companion Cavalry, perhaps?

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Blitzkrieg translates to "Lightning War" - this is found in Autocracy.

A lot of UUs in the game are weak, but not all of them need buffs. Some bad UUs balance out their civs. Sure, the bowman is nothing special to look at, but that's compensated for by Ingenuity. I'm okay with some of them being bad.

While true, that honestly is bad design. Having an extremely overpowered UA and marginal UB and UU to 'compensate' leves a sore taste in your mouth.

BrentH said:

1. Egyptian War Chariot: I've only ever built one of these, as an early rush is just incongruous with Egypt's UA and optimal playstyle; hence, a little buff would not be amiss. --Add Accuracy 1--

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Not to be annoying or anything, but the Burial Tomb's +2 happiness means Egypt is one of the few civs that can easily expand in the early game, their 20% wonder production bonus is arguably less useful than the Burial Tomb. Either way, they can DEFINITELY go wide well.

I think ranged units should convert their terrain upgrades into respective melee ones (and vice-versa ) when upgraded. Would solve half of the UU problems.

Infiltrator said:

I think ranged units should convert their terrain upgrades into respective melee ones (and vice-versa ) when upgraded. Would solve half of the UU problems.

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Either that, or simply make it dependent only upon the target's location. (Which would make it cumulative rather than swap 1-for-1 as you suggested, which will have much the same result.)

That is, change this: +15% range strength against Units in OPEN Terrain. (NO Hills, Forest or Jungle).

to this: +15% attacking strength against Units in OPEN Terrain. (NO Hills, Forest or Jungle).

(Consider this: Drill is cumulative with Barrage when you upgrade a melee unit to a siege or archery unit. That's how the game currently works.
But the converse is NOT true: Barrage is wasted if you upgrade a siege or archery unit to a melee unit.)