Brutal Honesty Needed: Guild Wars 2

I've been a bit bored lately and will soon have $60 in walking around money. I trust this community more than most and I need some honest information about Guild Wars 2.

Can I get some hype-free, down to earth information about Guild Wars 2. What's PVP like? How/what is the PVE endgame?

I haven't really been following it closely so most information is new to me. I did play Guild Wars for a while back when it was new, so I know the prequel a bit.

PvE is great (for an MMORPG), WvWvW PvP is great, and the game in general is a lot of fun (for an MMORPG, which I normally avoid like the plague they are). Its still an MMORPG with a themepark-ish PvE that WoW popularized but it is also clearly a successor to Guild Wars and not yet another WoW clone.

I'm still trying to make my mind up as to whether or not I like Guild Wars 2. On the one hand it had one of the smoothest launches I've ever seen in an MMO, the group events, lore and classes are all interesting, the graphics and music are good, story, crafting and yet... It just seems really flat. I'm not sure if I can explain this because it's more of a feeling than anything else but the world (despite being pretty busy) feels lifeless.

One of the things I've always enjoyed about MMO's is leveling on a PvP server because at any moment a bog standard quest can turn into a fight for you life and before you know there's a whole bunch of other people there fighting it out. True these events are more often than not griefers or campers but it still adds variety to the game. In GW2 the entire world is safe and there isn't even a concept of sides despite the lore and characters constantly talking about the animosity between races. There was one point where my human character went to level in a Char area and the NPC's I was talking were going on about avenging the human scum, whilst talking to one. I wasn't sure what to make of that but it's such an odd feeling to have no concept of danger in an MMO.

If you want to PvP you go to a sterile realm v realm map where you can run around, try and figure out what to do and where the enemy is before getting bored and leaving. At first I thought the concept of realm v realm sounded great because the large scale faction warfare in games like Warhammer and DAoC was always something that I enjoyed, but in GW2 it feels incredibly token because rather than being part of the game it's relegated to a nether zone existing between worlds rather than being a part of them.

Class wise I've been playing an engineer which is alright but nothing special, WAR had a much better engineer and even AoC had more interesting interpretations of classes in GW2 - e.g. the necromancer. My main problem with classes is that you get so few skills and there's little scope for customisation. Unlike in the original where you had a main and secondary class which you could pick skills from in GW2 you have 5 static skills that are determined by your weapon and another five which you can chose from a list of available class based skills. But, as is so often the case, this choice is an illusion since of the five you always have to have 1 healing, 3 utility and 1 elite skill. You might hear about how there are millions of possible builds but there's only ever going to be a few that work and with such limited scope for choice I expect the choice to be smaller than normal - it certainly has been in my experience with the engineer.

In terms of quests it's more exploration based rather than linear and in that respect I think GW2 is really good since it encourages you to get out there instead of mindlessly talking to townsfolk afflicted with exclamation marks growing out their head whilst glued to the spot. The events themselves are fun and you might draw similarities with the public quest system in WAR. However in that game you had both and public quests supplemented rather than replaced traditional ones whereas in GW2 you can do public quests or public quests. The only alternative is area quests, but even then other people are doing the same thing and if you're lazy you only need to brush up against a tagged mob to get credit and loot. There's no individual questing short of story mode, but that pulls an AoC by luring you in with frequent story quests and then before you know there's nothing to do until 3 or 4 levels later.

There's plenty I've missed in this description but after about 2 weeks of playing this game on and off I'm still not getting it. Unlike virtually every other genre of game there needs to be a reason to play an MMO due to the amount of time you have to invest in order to get anywhere. I can't find that reason in GW2 because I have the nagging feeling that in trying to please everyone ArenaNet has made a game that doesn't cater to anyone and just feels bland.

The best I can say is that it isn't boring and I can't really say it's bad because it works in the same way that a generic summer action film works. But at the same time I don't see myself playing this much longer because there's nothing interesting enough to catch my attention. Combat is ok, but AoC was better, PvE is average but poor in comparison to WoW, PvP works but is drivel compared to WAR, exploration and crafting are good but Everquest was better and in terms of spreadsheets... EVE will always be king.

Angry Joe Review

He gave it a 10/10 (doesn't mean it is perfect, just damn legendary). Which is pretty rare from him... he does a pretty good job of describing a number of aspects of the game that are great improvements or even just the little things that make the game a huge improvement over other MMOs. The game isn't perfect, and I wouldn't give it a perfect score, but there isn't any other MMORPG that is overall better.

EDIT: Also ArenaNet has been posting excellent daily status reports about what they are working on fixing and other issues they are addressing and has been quite active in reading and even replying to community feedback on their forums and a couple of other websites.

I haven't got round to watching the entire video yet since it's quite long but he's wrong when saying that GW2 has no fetch quests or back tracking. There's quite a few quests which require you to collect stuff and then bring it back to an NPC. Also don't you think that describing GW2 in terms of an overall score is a problem since it goes back to what I was saying about it trying to please everyone and ends up being bland?

The PvE system sucked in WAR but that was still a really good game for a while because the RvR was so good, as was DAoC. In AoC PvP sucked and crafting was a joke, but the combat kept me going. GW2 is competent across the board but has nothing that I can point to and say "that's why I like it." Which is ultimately why I don't see much longevity in it because a game should have an audience and, whilst MMO is a genre, it's not an audience since the number of different types of players is vast and would be like making a game that is for anyone who likes RPG.

Yeah it still has fetch quests but they are dressed up nicely and most of them have other tasks you can do instead, and you don't have to go very far to do them.

While other MMORPGs may have done really well in one area, they are mostly either dead and/or the rest of the game wasn't much of an improvement (or changed for the worse, in WAR's case). A great aspect of Guild Wars is that you can play it at your own pace and don't have to rush through to max level and end game content either.

Ok I gave up on that video after about twelve minutes; I imagine by the twenty minute mark he starts jumping up and down since it seemed like he'd ingested what should be a lethal dose of Red Bull.

However one thing that bothered me, and seemed to be a focal point of his praise, is the idea that the game encourages grouping. WAR already did that and it's not a new concept; it might be new for him since, by his own admission, he hasn't gotten into an MMO before, but it still isn't new. The other thing is that variety is always good and in GW2 you only have group quests and occasional single player story quests. You can argue that in an MMO you should be playing with other people anyway but constant grouping is just as monotonous as constant soloing.

When playing other MMO's I've never felt the need to rush to the current level cap and, whilst there seems to be a belief that the game doesn't start till then, this can't be true because if it were nobody would have reached it to realise that. When playing a new MMO there needs to be something to captivate you; for WAR that was RvR, WoW had an incredibly seamless world (GW2 has loading screens between every zone even if they're right next to each other) and GW2 has...

Maybe it's just me since I seem to be in the minority but, during the 5 day launch weekend which fell on a bank holiday and I was even looking forward to it enough to book 2 days off work, I got bored after a few hours and ended up playing TF2 before going out that evening rather than staying in. For a highly anticipated MMO that wasn't the reaction I was expecting to have, and the only reason I can think for doing so is because there's nothing about GW2 that captivates me, it's just there and is alright I guess.

So how does the character customization work?

My short short version - I bought it, played it for a day, and then asked for my money back. To their credit, I was given a refund.

Malachi256 said:

My short short version - I bought it, played it for a day, and then asked for my money back. To their credit, I was given a refund.

Click to expand...

I'm intrigued. Why did you not like it?

Feel free to vent. I may not end up agreeing, and I may yet buy it and love it, but I want to know what turned you away.

CommonKnowledge said:

The best I can say is that it isn't boring and I can't really say it's bad because it works in the same way that a generic summer action film works. But at the same time I don't see myself playing this much longer because there's nothing interesting enough to catch my attention. Combat is ok, but AoC was better, PvE is average but poor in comparison to WoW, PvP works but is drivel compared to WAR, exploration and crafting are good but Everquest was better and in terms of spreadsheets... EVE will always be king.

Click to expand...

WAR is Warhammer Online? That game is practically in the grave as far as PvP goes. People only ever play tier 1 (which is the noob tier). I think EA and Mythic will be successful in transferring it to a MOBA format, which I think is very near release now (or was).

AlpsStranger said:

I'm intrigued. Why did you not like it?

Feel free to vent. I may not end up agreeing, and I may yet buy it and love it, but I want to know what turned you away.

Click to expand...

Let's see...

The biggest thing is character control / tightness / crispness. I think WoW has been the market leader on this for years now, and no one has really been able to compare. Most games either come close, or miss the mark... GW2 is close, it's certainly not awful, but it doesn't feel as good as WoW.

I was not impressed with character abilities. I admit this is something that could've gotten better with time / higher level, but I felt like I got a pretty good sense for what the game had to offer, and it felt like a step back from WoW.

WvWvW didn't hook me. I was in a few small and medium sized engagements, and they were chaotic, messy/ugly, and a bit slide-showy.

The tauted exploration is pretty meh. Largely because they tell you where to go. If there's an icon on my map telling me where to explore... idk, that kinda kills it for me. It WAS nice that the game encouraged you to look around for interesting place you could climb / jump to, so this is certainly not a bad thing, but it just felt a bit contrived to me. For the record, WoW completely fails on the exploration front IMO.

The basic pve in the game is totally run-of-the-mill. One of my "okay I'm done" moments was when I was slogging through some area with some aggro wolves or cats or something... they were tightly packed, and respawned pretty quickly. I could barely make any progress. I'm really tired of that style of MMO-world.


GW2 isn't bad - if I was on a tight budget, I would strongly consider it. But I'm not, and after a short time playing it, I found myself wanting to just play WoW instead.

I'm enjoying it like crazy at the moment. My last week and a half has basically been sleep-work-Guild Wars, repeat.

That said, I haven't played any WvW yet, nor reached any end game PvP, as I'm more of a map completionist, and recently got distracted by crafting.

Im liking it so far, it isn't like the first Guild Wars though, a good thing in a way as towards the end most seemed to play it solo.

I suppose my major complaint is the downleveling when you go to low level areas, it even does if your a higher level then the story mission your doing. Seems quite a strange system.

WvWvW is, in my experience, either wandering around trying to find allies or a tug of war between two very large groups over 2 castles/keeps for an hour and then looking at my map and realising their is a group of people on my side who actually know what they are doing because we've captured 3 keeps on another part of the map.

I suppose the best part is no monthly fee and I played alot of GW1 so its just interesting to see whats happened to the place.

Oruc said:

Im liking it so far, it isn't like the first Guild Wars though, a good thing in a way as towards the end most seemed to play it solo.

Click to expand...

I was actually surprised at how little it ties to GW1. Perhaps it's because I didn't play the post-EotN content very much, but it seems like there's surprisingly few references to the first game.

I suppose my major complaint is the downleveling when you go to low level areas, it even does if your a higher level then the story mission your doing. Seems quite a strange system.

Click to expand...

I actually really like the down leveling, because it means you can explore the other starting zones, and still have it be not a complete walk over. Plus it would be kind of ridiculous to see all the 30+ level players one shotting monsters as they farm the basic craft materials.

Well, I've taken the plunge. It won't be the first $60 I've wasted if I end up hating it.

Good on you brother. 'Tis awesome. Incidentally, where did you get it? I'm not impressed that the online purchasing system has been down for almost a week now. I'm sure their marketers must be furious.

Thats kind of a problem with any web-based program/service that gets a lot of hits (the entire trading system isn't so much an in-game window as an in-game browser page very well disguised as a a normal menu/thing). They have been easing it into being fully opened (they weren't quite finished stress testing it) more and more and unless it goes down again it should be available for everyone. I'm sure it will get better soon.

The downleveling is a good thing since it keeps even lower level areas from being a boring cake walk.

EDIT: Oh wait you meant the digital sales of the actual game, they actually turned that off (and stopped other sites like GMG from selling it) because they have more players than server capacity (and they have a lot of servers). They are working on setting up a few more servers and probably worlds plus waiting for the initial splurge of layers to calm down a bit. But yeah, they are definitely losing some sales as I know a few people who want to buy it but can't (sold out or not available in retail stores for them too).

Let me see if I can organize my thoughts.

The good:

Combat is fun. The fact that you can't customize weapon skills KIND OF sucks, but on the other hand it's kind of good since it allows them to balance the move sets well. Only having a few skills means you have to learn when to activate which skill instead of just figuring out which 5 skills do the most damage and chaining them one after the other.

I like the world. It's a little weird as a Charr leveling in other starting zones and being all chummy with them but if you can get past that it's pretty fun to explore, and you never know when a dynamic event might pop out and redirect your course.

Overflow servers, I never have to wait in queue to play the frigging game, which is great.

WvWvW is fun. It's very confusing at first but if you get a good sized group of people coordinating attacks and siege setups and such it can be a LOT of fun. Depends on the situation though, if your server gets matched with a server that completely out skills you so you get steamrolled it's not that fun.

Being able to help random players or have them help you without either side getting screwed out of loot or XP is awesome.

The bad:

Heart quests are largely boring. These are standard MMO quests with slightly fancier window dressing. They give you a choice on how to do them but at the end of the day your choices all boil down to standard MMO quest fair. Kill mobs, collect items that are conveniently laying all over the ground, interact with wounded soldiers, light torches, stuff like that. Not exactly breaking new ground in the MMO genre with this.

Dungeons are a clusterflop. The game doesn't work the same as other MMO's in terms of roles so if you get a group of people who don't understand how it works it becomes a chaotic mess. Also in terms of endgame there are no dungeons for groups larger than 5 people. This is great if you are a more casual player who just wants to play with a few friends but if you are like me and are willing to put in the effort with larger groups in order to reap the larger reward, this game has nothing for you. I would thus have to describe the PVE as quite weak. Basically the PVE setup in this game is like WoW if WoW stopped after heroics and had no raids. SWTOR was a damned terrible game but even it managed to have raids. Bad ones, but they were there. This game doesn't even make the token effort. This is honestly my biggest complaint with the game, I like WvW but I am a PVE player at heart and the lack of serious PVE content for serious PVE players is going to be a problem for me after a while when I'm done leveling alts and such.

No world PVP kind of sucks, I miss the feeling of danger when leveling a lower level character.

In this game the only way you can possibly die is if you are stupid and pull too many mobs or attack a champion that you can't solo or something. The game in general is quite easy and leveling is very fast, it feels like it is taking no effort whatsoever which means that getting to level 80 will give no feeling of accomplishment whatsoever. This is in general a fault of most MMO's on the market these days, they've lost the sense of accomplishment because they tend to hand you everything on a silver platter. I guess a lot of people like that, but that's not why I play games. I want to be challenged and then be rewarded only when I manage to overcome that challenge. In general this game lacks truly challenging content aside from PVP, which I'm ignoring because the challenge in PVP has nothing to do with the creators of the game, it's all determined by the players.

That's all I can really come up with right now, I'm sure there's more stuff that I like/dislike but I'm too tired to think of any right now, that's the stuff that sprang to mind right away.

Crap they really nerfed the cooking skill, sticks of butter are now world drops can't buy them from vendors.
I won't be able to go from 1-400 cooking skill in day and only costing 50s and 1k karma... why did I wait?