The Community Deity Game #13 - THE Inca

Well that's really what Civ is about, rewriting history and ignoring what the Civ actually did. Sometimes its better, sometimes it ends in a nuclear war, but either way we can keep the real world out of it from now on and focus on the Civ's in-game skills instead of what they did in the real world. No -1000 gpt or 11 carriers or military score average x5, etc. etc. etc. I could probably nitpick every single civ on that list in their current form, not just the one I live in.

That's pretty much my point. If you have a fun idea for this GAME, post it. If it offends somebody, I think that's more of a reflection on that person not getting that this is a game. You have fun ideas, keep them coming please. Some will work, some won't. Some will touch on some of the less appetizing aspects of human history. That's reality and this is a game.
 
Yes, there really were a lot of atrocities committed in colonial expansion period of Europe. I'd venture to say that there isn't a single civ in this GAME that isn't guilty of the same (or worse).

Shaka? Genocide, fratrocide, and a slaver.
China? Probably killed more of its own citizens than all others combined.
Rome and Greece? Conquerors and slavers.
Incas? Became a great nation by conquest.

I could go on, but I think the point is made; just about every "great" civilization in our history was built by taking from others. Mankind has a pretty sordid past and though we glorify some and demonize others depending on which way the current wind of opinion is blowing, the fact is that we are a very violent race.

But, this is just a game. Like most popular games, there is some killing involved, and because Civ tries to give an element of historical accuracy, there is killing in the game that, by design, mirrors the past.

I can respect the viewpoint that Adcarrymaokai presents here, but I'd like to request that we keep discussion here away from politics and such. I come here to get away from that.

I would say that Gandhi (as far as we know) never committed any genocide or atrocities, though he apparently thought sub-Saharan Africans were subhuman, which is bad enough in my opinion. But he is just a leader of course, not a civilization.

This entire concept of civilization falls apart really quickly if you stop believing in holistic cultures. I wouldn't say the ancient greeks who lived in modern-day turkey have much in common with its inhabitants now. Less than a century ago Bohemians mostly considered themselves German, now they almost unanimously consider themselves Czech. All those great Civilizations you can play as were constructed by historians centuries later. We don't differentiate between Sunni Arabs and Shia Arabs, because we want to see the "Arab Empire" as an entity, not as a construction made up of complex individuals with different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. The Civ series is based entirely on the concept of "Great People History", which is mostly looked down upon by historians today.

To me this is the exact reason why Civ is so much fun. It's complete fantasy. It's flawed on so many levels, which is precisely the reason why it works. We don't differentiate between Corinthians and Spartans, even though they probably wouldn't get along all that well if our game was only a tad realistic, because it would kill immersion. You are playing as an immortal, all powerful ruler. I suppose this a power fantasy every human being had at some point.

I'll stop the off topic posting for now, I probably already did enough to upset the mods with my ventures into shark territory :lol:
 
Lol why do I ever try Liberty.
Made 6 cities, got national college turn 90ish, stole 5 workers. Things be going well. Composite rush libson on turn 100ish. Surprise, she has ...ONE galleas. It one-shots any of my units ( sure game, sure, that's normal ).
I then just peace out, taking a 12 pop city as reward for having such a sweet start and getting cheated on by BuffymcBufferson, the Buffer of Damage.

Sadly, that's -16 happiness. Ah, the cost of playing the game as intended on Deity! Whoops.

Oh well, back to 4-5 city tradition science win lol. I just feel so cheated on whenever I go domination. ALl sorts of bs keeps happening and the AI's units definitely seem to deal way more damage than mine, even at equal promotions.
 
Lol why do I ever try Liberty.
Made 6 cities, got national college turn 90ish

Rather than whine about liberty, you should learn to do CB rush correctly. You are not supposed to build 6 cities when you go CB rush. 2-3 is enough, one of them is from the free settler. Also you should prioritize troops over most other things, including science buildings. There is no reason to build NC before starting CB rush, it won't pay itself back until much later in the game. Turn 100 is around the time you want to get XB ready on a good game if you wait for that.
 
Lol oh noes, I tried again, rushed petra, got it. 3 of the AI went full rationalism, Pacal beat me to ideology and took order. Then every single leading AI took order while the defeated ones took autocracy.
But whatever, wasn't going to get science win before even turn 300. I suck at this game. Need to watch more Acken.

Rather than whine about liberty, you should learn to do CB rush correctly.

I didn't make 6 cities before doing it, but yeah it's my first time trying so obviously not really good at it.
I'm more whining about the fact that getting gifted a free city is really really bad on Deity, which is like... just... stupid lol. A lot of the basic game mechanics breaks down on Deity because of the happiness.
 
I could not help myself from trying again. Settle the sheep, gave up the coastal expo, and did not try to get ten slingers (ended up with six). Still built Machu Picchu in Machu. Should have built a wall first, as that mistake almost cost me the game!

Things are going much better. I am teching better, first to Ideologies this time, but not enough to have beaten what the faraway runaway did in my last game. Game has too much RNG.
 
Nothing too dramatic:

Achievements:

Spoiler :

A. Build/buy at least 10 Slingers and keep them alive all game. They may be upgraded. (3 points) Zero points. I only built 5 before I HAD to research Construction.

B. 1 point for each Wonder built or captured that has a theming bonus AND is fully themed (8 points possible). 6 Points. I built SC, SOH, Broadway, & Louvre. Captured Parthenon and GL from Hiawatha.
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C. Build your capital as large as possible (30+ = 1 point, 35+ = 2 points, 40+ = 3 points, 45+ = 4 points). 3 Points. Cusco got to 42 pop. I may have been able to get to 45 had I built Lighthouse before t265 and converted some hammer TR's to food earlier.
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D. Build a ton of Terrace Farms (for purpose of achievement points, only Terrace Farms adjacent to mountains count). (10+ = 1 point, 15+ = 2 points, 20+ = 3 points, 25+ = 4 points). 2 Points. I built 16. It will be tough to get 20+ without a lot of conquest.

E. Build Machu Pichu. (1 point, + 1 bonus point if it is built IN Machu). 1 Point. I could have built it in Machu as I had a GE.

Fun Bonus Points - Steal land from
Spoiler:
using
Spoiler:
and/or convert the two European nations' capitals to YOUR religion (1 point for the land steal, 1 point for having the capitals of both of the European invaders' capitals worship your religion at game end).Zero points. I never got that particular GG. I converted Madrid on t268 but didn't have time to get my GP to Lisbon.
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Storyline:
Spoiler :

As I was building my Arties in preparation for a push North, the world was somewhat violent. Spain and Shoshone were engaged in a decent battle I may have instigated. They looked to have a pretty good naval fight up by the NE peninsula. Spain was also knocking Hiawatha around, taking all but their capital before giving peace. Seeing an easy opportunity, I marched 3 Arties and Infantrymen East to take an undefended Onondaga in 3 turns and capturing the two theming wonders.

The Shoshone had finally taken Monte out once they had planes. I had an archeologist up there digging who saw the sad ending. Poca and Izzy were playing ping-pong with Hiawatha's expo right at the crossroads between their territories with Izzy's navy competing with Poca's air force to see who could rack up the most kills. From a strategic location standpoint, with me and my mountains sort of in the way, it was a bloody battle for an important chokepoint. I got Poca to give me a few GPT to DoW Izzy and my conquest was on. Sadly, Poca gave her peace shortly thereafter and spent the next several turns grumbling about my behavior. The nerve of some AI's.......

My war with Izzy was going to be tough. I had superior units but he had a lot more of them and had a navy of Battleships to pick off anyone dumb enough to get in range. As I was short on Oil in my own lands (7 total), I used a GG to grab 7 more Oil the turn before the DoW and this helped me get enough planes and tanks. I liberated Riga quickly and traded it back and forth with her for about 10 turns. I'm guessing the diplo bonus for this liberation helped keep Poca from attacking me despite his dissatisfaction with me and am wondering if multiple liberations of the same CS stack? In any case, when you liberate a CS the conquering unit gets moved to the next closest tile, so I had to make sure the Infantryman got teleported to Riga's Coal spot where I had a worker ready for pillage/repair. The same unit took the city 6 times before he finally had to go back home for a bit. Basically, Izzy lost 4-5 units every turn and I lost zero during this exercise.

Elsewhere, I eventually sent a few Rocket Arties and tanks to liberate Wittenberg where the only Uranium within sight was. I was going to rush a few nukes and steamroll Spain and the land formerly known as Portugal. Sadly, when I took the city I soon realized the tile hadn't been improved. I also remembered the hard way that my Worker couldn't improve the tile for them. For some reason, I was unable to gift the Worker so my plan was not going to be implemented.

With about 15 turns to go, it became apparent that Pacal would be under my influence next (Spain had succumbed earlier) and it was going to be a close race between Brazil and Shoshone as to who to send my GMu (from Liberty finisher) to. I had better modifiers with Brazil but they had a big culture lead. In the end, I chose correctly and the concert tour was done in Shoshone lands (cost me 20 GPT for open borders). I completed Aesthetics on t269 and could have faith bought one more GMu if needed, but the game ended. Obviously, my earlier use of GMu's for theming bonuses wasn't optimal for fast victory, but I wanted my achievement points.

Once I realized I would have no nukes, it was clear that the invasion of Spain would not be over before the CV was finished, so I tried for several turns before Izzy finally gave me white peace. My goal then was to send my GP to Madrid then Lisbon to earn that bonus point but I ran out of time and never made it to Lisbon. I probably could have bought another GP and got that but had burned faith on an unneeded GS earlier.

After barking at me incessantly, Shoshone finally took 20 GPT to DoW Pacal and then the victory was secure. Poca had a big army and likely would have taken undefended and hard to defend Onondaga (he dropped two GG's to steal the luxes there), but my choke points would have stopped him cold from getting any further absent a sneak naval attack from across the world.

The strategy of taking Antwerp probably paid off. The city was producing 110+ hammers at the end and built most of my forces while Cusco was Wonder spamming. It was also in a great strategic location for this map, and had great defensive terrain, especially after I lined its turf with cheap/free roads.

I was able to complete Trad, Ratio, Liberty, and Aesthetics as well as getting 6 in Freedom (and Exploration opener for Louvre). This may be a personal record for Social Policies in a non-Poland game. I'm not sure if I'd have been better off completing Aesthetics before Rationalism or not. Probably not as CV needs science more than Aesthetics bonuses unless you have a ton of faith to buy GMus. I had good faith (63 FPT at max) but not great enough to take the GMu route. Besides, I wanted to get some achievements more than a fast win time.

After finally getting a good look at Rio de Janeiro, I now see how Pedro was able to hold out against Izzy for so long. That city was a quagmire of jungle and likely very hard to invade. I've got to remember that next time I play a Brazil game.

That's about all I've got that is of any interest. I'm looking forward to seeing if someone can get a sub-220 turn CV. I think it's possible for some of you even with a very irritating lack of strategic resources. I am satisfied that, once again, the true power of the mighty Incas has been demonstrated. They may be turf-dependent, but if they get decent dirt they can be overpowering. If I ever get into Multi-player games, Inca would be my first choice.
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Shark Diver:

From city-state screen you can give them money for improvement. It will instantly connect strategic resource. It costs something like 200gold etc. They dont even need worker to do that!
 
I've been waiting and wondering when Ur would connect its Whales. I finally figured out what the problem was. :cringe:

whales.jpg
 
Shark Diver:

From city-state screen you can give them money for improvement. It will instantly connect strategic resource. It costs something like 200gold etc. They dont even need worker to do that!

Well that's frustrating. I completely forgot you could do that. I loaded a save about 6 turns earlier and it worked like a charm. That would have made a difference and it worked for Ur and the Whales also. Sending a workboat up to Ur did not work, nor would they accept the boat as a gift.

That's one of the things I love about this game. All of those small little details/tricks can make a big difference. I had Ur allied very early and that extra happiness would have helped. It didn't affect any WLTK's but I think I had a few marine mammal requests.
 
Turn 271 science victory, 3pts.

Was probably longer because I wasted time with petra, but petra is funny. Also I suck.

Game:
Spoiler :
I settled on the sheep, made 4 cities. Stole 2 wokers and 1 settler from Spain, which didn't slow her down at all apparently as she quickly conquered Maria and then proceeded to backstab me all game trying to conquer my lands. I made her declare war on every other AI and she still backstabbed me and declared war lol what.

Every AI except pedro was constantly plotting against me even as I was minding my own business in my little corner. Eventually pocatello, chief douche of douchemountain, settled a city to get one copper and that triggered him enough to start declaring war on me. How dare I be next to his crappy turn 200 city, eternal source of one copper?

Anyway, I got petra, built big ben, forbidden palace, oracle, cristo rendetor, neuschwenstein, hubble and statue of liberty. I ignored the quests because this is my first time and I am not that good at dealing with psycho AIs
 
Poxpower, congrats on your first posted win here. That's not a slow time and your write-up gave me a couple of good laughs.

I tried 3 times :p
I could have won the other 2 but I just got frustrated as things didn't go my way and it would have been way slower, like turn 300-320 so meh.

Anyway, just had to go for petra, just too funny with terrace farms. Good idea lol. I never thought of abusing petra that way. Like 10 turn forbidden palace haha.
 
I can respect the viewpoint that Adcarrymaokai presents here, but I'd like to request that we keep discussion here away from politics and such. I come here to get away from that.
Well, the original post raised a highly political question, and I said what I thought because I find trivializing history very troubling.

In fact, the victory conditions described are not even accurate:
1. CV? Well, there are still major Native American populations who practice their tradition and flourish in their communities.
2. Diplo? But when you force people into reservations under the gun point and take away their land, that is not diplomacy.

I understand that this is "just a game," and I understand that people may enjoy role-playing, but I am also entitled to my opinion, which I am, by the way, not forcing on anyone.
 
Moderator Action: Folks, please do try to refrain from inserting real world considerations into the game forums. It's OK to a modest degree, but if you really do want to debate the worst aspects of human behavior throughout history, including how well or poorly it is represented in games (including CIV), the World History forum (just a few clicks away) is a better place for that. As it says right there on the tin, this forum is about game strategy and tips.
 
B. 1 point for each Wonder built or captured that has a theming bonus AND is fully themed (8 points possible).

Should this be nine, or does one of these not qualify?

  1. Great Library
  2. Oxford
  3. Sistine Chapel
  4. Globe Theater
  5. Hermitage
  6. Uffizi
  7. The Louvre
  8. Broadway
  9. Sydney Opera House
 
Quite the terrible slog. Once again, not by design, my CV was delayed to last possible turn!
T359, I kill off green. T360 I get influence on tan. T361 I would win WL vote in UN. Brown had five SS parts. So once again, it comes down to not what I am doing, but if the AI give me time.

I did not come close to winning International Games (~1500 hammers to ~3000, and I was in a GA). I build the Musicians Guild too early, so the first couple were under powered. My war on green was pathetic. I didn’t progress until I had XCOM and Stealth. On the other hand, I thought I would have to wipe tan out along with green. After the first three GMu bombs on brown, I realized I was done with him. Four more GMu (two faith purchased) went to tan just before he closed borders. Brown hated me the whole last half of the game, but every ten turns or so I bribed him to DOW some else.

  • I only built six Slingers and they all eventually died, the last couple as Machine Guns. 0 points.
  • I built (and themed) SOH and Louvre, and captured Broadway (themed when I got it). I also themed Oxford, Hermitage, and five (!) museums (at the end). Green had a ton of great works and artifacts. 3 points.
  • Cap only got to 37 even though I was running three internal food routes for most of the game. 2 points.
  • Ended with 42 (!) terrace farms, only noticing just now that only those on mountains count. I built 16 on mountains, converting two to mines for the coal later. 2 points.
  • Built Machu Picchu in Machu. 2 points.
  • The named GG never spawned for me, but I did convert both European nations’ capitals to my religion. I only needed one inquisitor, as red had killed white before DOWing me. I was actually planning to leave red alone this time, but her DOW was just before the FL spawned. I recalled the white European, liberating even her cap, then took the three good red cities (leaving her one trash city). 1 point.
 

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Should this be nine, or does one of these not qualify?

  1. Great Library
  2. Oxford
  3. Sistine Chapel
  4. Globe Theater
  5. Hermitage
  6. Uffizi
  7. The Louvre
  8. Broadway
  9. Sydney Opera House

Good catch. I realized this during my own play through. Is 9 the correct number and should I change it in the OP?
 
Good catch. I realized this during my own play through. Is 9 the correct number and should I change it in the OP?

Should be 7 IMHO. National Wonders are too easy, so should not count towards achievement. Or theming both is a prerequisite.
 
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