Culture vs Tourism

wilro85 · Jul 29, 2013

I have a questiona bout the culture vs tourism mechanic.

Supposedly you become more influential when tourism production exceeds culture production. However, in the early game when I create my first work of art (usually a great writing) I note that my influence begins "slowly rising" against all other known civs.

At this point I am producing +2 tourism and my culture is usually in the 30-60 range (I assume most civs are similar). Obviously tourism vs culture isn't a 1:1 mechanic. Does anyone know what it is? Do you need 5 culture to defend against each point of tourism? 10? etc...

MadDjinn · Jul 29, 2013

It is a direct 1-1 relationship.

Tourism output doesn't start surpassing culture output until the mid-late game when Archaeology sites start getting worked and Hotels/Airports/etc get brought in to play.

That Other Guy · Jul 29, 2013

Rising indicates that your percentage influence over them in increasing, not that the absolute difference is shrinking.

If they have 2000 (+60) total culture when you get that GW, then after one turn, you've gone from:

0 tourism and 2000 culture (0% influence) to
2 tourism and 2060 culture (0.01% influence), and after ten identical turns you're at
20 tourism and 2600 culture (0.77% influence).
After a large number of identical turns, you'd stabilize at 3.33% influence - a definite increase over 0%.

MadDjinn said:
It is a direct 1-1 relationship.

Tourism output doesn't start surpassing culture output until the mid-late game when Archaeology sites start getting worked and Hotels/Airports/etc get brought in to play.

I'm not entirely comfortable calling it a direct relation, since the multipliers from open borders/religion/trade routes mean +2 tourism might be acting like +3 against some people, whereas +60 culture will always be +60.

VainoValkea · Jul 29, 2013

wilro85 said:
I have a questiona bout the culture vs tourism mechanic.

Supposedly you become more influential when tourism production exceeds culture production. However, in the early game when I create my first work of art (usually a great writing) I note that my influence begins "slowly rising" against all other known civs.

At this point I am producing +2 tourism and my culture is usually in the 30-60 range (I assume most civs are similar). Obviously tourism vs culture isn't a 1:1 mechanic. Does anyone know what it is? Do you need 5 culture to defend against each point of tourism? 10? etc...

It's 1-1, but the "rising slowly" refers to the fact that the quotient of your tourism vs their culture is growing. It will continue to do so until it stabilizes approximately at the quotient of your tourism per turn (against them, with modifiers taken into account) vs their culture in turn - or would stabilize if the values didn't change far too fast for that to happen.

Saintkat · Jul 29, 2013

That Other Guy said:
If you have 2000 (+60) total culture when you get that GW, then after one turn, you've gone from:

0 tourism and 2000 culture (0% influence) to
2 tourism and 2060 culture (0.01% influence), and after ten identical turns you're at
20 tourism and 2600 culture (0.77% influence).
After a large number of identical turns, you'd stabilize at 3.33% influence - a definite increase over 0%.

Do you mean their culture? Or is % influence simply = your total tourism / your total culture?

Edit: post above clarified

That Other Guy · Jul 29, 2013

Saintkat said:
Do you mean their culture? Or is % influence simply = your total tourism / your total culture?

Their culture - thanks for the catch.

joncnunn · Jul 29, 2013

"Rising" has got to be in absolute terms because when you hover over, you always get in how many turns you'd become influential which is 100%. (Even of several hundred turns)

Rising slowly is the percentage based rise that would at some point would stop doing so.

I'm told that some people have seen "falling slowly"; I suspect you have to be "Influential" to see that.

KrikkitTwo · Jul 29, 2013

joncnunn said:
"Rising" has got to be in absolute terms because when you hover over, you always get in how many turns you'd become influential which is 100%. (Even of several hundred turns)

Rising slowly is the percentage based rise that would at some point would stop doing so.

I'm told that some people have seen "falling slowly"; I suspect you have to be "Influential" to see that.

Falling slowly can appear if they suddenly started making a lot more culture

(ie you have 10 tourism per turm, they have 100 culture per turn...
right now you are at say 8% rising slowly
80 /1000 .. they got a head start

Now if they suddenly start producing 200 culture per turn (they just got a lot of cities with monuments/Sistine Chapel, etc) then you would be falling slowly

Yzman · Jul 29, 2013

joncnunn said:
"Rising" has got to be in absolute terms because when you hover over, you always get in how many turns you'd become influential which is 100%. (Even of several hundred turns)

Rising slowly is the percentage based rise that would at some point would stop doing so.

I'm told that some people have seen "falling slowly"; I suspect you have to be "Influential" to see that.

There is no reason that rising has to be absolute terms. For example, consider the following easy example
My Tourism: +7 ( after modifiers etc)
Their Culture 10 (+5)

Tourism/Culture Value
7/15
14/20
21/25
28/30
35/35

And right after that turn I would be influential. Rising just means you are increasing at a fast enough rate that you will eventually exceed 100% instead of stagnanting.

Really it just means that you have caught up to their absolute number and are now making more tourism than they are culture.

ToodleElNoodos · Jul 29, 2013

Falling tends to happen if you go to war against a high culture civ of a different ideology. All the negatives stacked will drop your tourism output towards them to the point you can't keep up with their culture.

joncnunn · Jul 29, 2013

Yzman said:
There is no reason that rising has to be absolute terms. For example, consider the following easy example
My Tourism: +7 ( after modifiers etc)
Their Culture 10 (+5)

Tourism/Culture Value
7/15
14/20
21/25
28/30
35/35.

In your case; your +7 tourism per turn is in absolute terms higher than their +5 culture per turn.

joncnunn · Jul 29, 2013

ToodleElNoodos said:
Falling tends to happen if you go to war against a high culture civ of a different ideology. All the negatives stacked will drop your tourism output towards them to the point you can't keep up with their culture.

There's multiple things that will cause 1 turn to show falling and then go back to normal:

AI used a writer for a cultural boost.

And strangely enough, when I used a Musician for a concert tour, while my tourism did increase significantly, it then said "falling" for the remainder of the turn before next turn going back to rising.

werothegreat · Jul 30, 2013

Rising slowly = your percentage against them is increasing, but their Culture per turn is higher than your Tourism per turn against them

Rising = your percentage against them is increasing, and your Tourism per turn against them is higher than their Culture per turn

Culture vs Tourism

wilro85

Chieftain

MadDjinn

Deity

That Other Guy

Chieftain

VainoValkea

Emperor

Saintkat

Chieftain

That Other Guy

Chieftain

joncnunn

Senior Java Wizard

KrikkitTwo

Immortal

Yzman

Deity

ToodleElNoodos

Warlord

joncnunn

Senior Java Wizard

joncnunn

Senior Java Wizard

werothegreat

Warlord

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