What is the most useless unique unit?

TheSunIsDark · May 14, 2014

The Navy SEAL is, IMO, better than a Panzer because of the free March promotion. No halted advances when you need to heal! Although, as has been pointed out, the Panzer is a tank, which owns anything up to it in tech (except CG Marines in cities and other tanks).

TheMulattoMaker · May 14, 2014

Ataxerxes said:
Berserker - lower tier but the 10% attack and Amphibious is useful. You can really hurt an enemy on water maps with this thing and the Viking's fast ships.

Not sure if this was mentioned in the first four pages or not, but just like the "real" Oromo is (to me) a Drill-IV Rifle, the "real" Berzerk is a CR3/Amphib Rifle. :goodjob:

(And like you pointed out, they can be dropped off by up-to-6 :move:

Galleons.)

thgonace · May 14, 2014

Has to be aztec, their uu is actually a nerf.
several others are very questionable
Gallic Warrior -> doesn't add anything of relevance
Carrack -> very questionable usefulness

TheMulattoMaker · May 14, 2014

thgonace said:
Carrack -> very questionable usefulness

I'd say it's a situational usefulness more than questionable. On a Pangaea, yeah, Carracks won't even get built, much less do anything noteworthy. On a Continents or Islands map, they can give you a huge lead on colonizing empty landmasses. On Terra/Earth2 they're an "I WIN!" button.

Iranon · May 15, 2014

Dog Soldiers, I'd usually return them for the real thing if I could. Guaranteed ability to build them is nice, but not necessary for a leader who blows a trait and a Unique Building on better archers.

Jaguars are more acceptable because they have some cute tricks and a promotion that sticks, I also don't consider the parent unit as essential.

Ataxerxes · May 15, 2014

thgonace said:
Has to be aztec, their uu is actually a nerf.
several others are very questionable
Gallic Warrior -> doesn't add anything of relevance
Carrack -> very questionable usefulness

I confess that I used to think as you do about the Aztec UU. It's a nonstandard UU to be sure but it has uses that were outlined. It can make a fantastic Supermedic - Woody III and Medic III on the same unit for 26 XP's? And really I don't like to Sword rush when the counter (Axe) is available much earlier so little is lost. The loss of strength is, to me, offset by the fact that it's resourceless. In the rare case you can't get to metal early it can be a lifesaver.

A lot of UU's are quite weak. I think over half of the UUs are pretty poor and don't add much. Dog Soldier is really divisive - some love it and some hate it.

Gallic Warrior opens up an interesting promotion line and can be made with Copper or Iron. It doesn't add too much but the same can be said of many UUs.

Carrack can be useful on a water map. It often doesn't do anything for you, however.

As MulattoMaker pointed out, almost any UU that has a significant free promo for all upgrades has to be worth something. Oromo Warrior is, of course, the archtype of this with 2 free promos. An oddball use of this is upgrading one Privateer to Destroyer for the expanded visibility.

Fippy · May 15, 2014

I never understood why nobody really seems to like Gallics, on Imm or lower you can kill AIs so easily with these guys..

You are 2 promos away (so easy to get too with Cha) from getting double movement thru hills (nice surprise attack and speed up in enemy culture) + 50% withdrawal chance + 25% hill attack.
With Boudi you would also have cheap barracks and combat 1, and once you get GGs you can turn your best guys into monster attackers with all benefits above + CR lol.

And you even can pick to settle iron or copper..

vranasm · May 16, 2014

Fippy said:
I never understood why nobody really seems to like Gallics, on Imm or lower you can kill AIs so easily with these guys..

You are 2 promos away (so easy to get too with Cha) from getting double movement thru hills (nice surprise attack and speed up in enemy culture) + 50% withdrawal chance + 25% hill attack.
With Boudi you would also have cheap barracks and combat 1, and once you get GGs you can turn your best guys into monster attackers with all benefits above + CR lol.

And you even can pick to settle iron or copper..

on monarch and lower chariots/axes work the same/better and you don't need to tech IW

on emp/imm I would prefer HA rush anyday over gallics.

just doesn't seem to be worth the effort to tech IW when commerce is spare and you expect to crash it more with rushing.

I think the same influences aztecs UU... they are usually great choke units, but you actually don't want to win with them wars because your commerce stalled because you invested cca 17-20 turns teching noneconomy nontradable tech.

Doshin · May 16, 2014

Phalanx for me too, although the Jaguar Warrior would be worse if it wasn't for its niche, Super Medic use.

Navy SEALs are really excellent, in those games where Marines are required.

Manco Capac · May 16, 2014

Phalanx are quite interesting in MP. Think about a unit that can withstand both chariots and swordmen. Only axes can be on part (and later Horse Archers). Instead of a stack with some spears and axes (or 50-50) to garantee immunity, you build twice as much in phalanxes. For SP, phalanxes are nothing special, but in MP, they are interesting.

Oh, and 534353543th thread about bad/good [insert a thing here]. lol

NihilZero · May 17, 2014

Fippy said:
I never understood why nobody really seems to like Gallics, on Imm or lower you can kill AIs so easily with these guys..

You are 2 promos away (so easy to get too with Cha) from getting double movement thru hills (nice surprise attack and speed up in enemy culture) + 50% withdrawal chance + 25% hill attack.
With Boudi you would also have cheap barracks and combat 1, and once you get GGs you can turn your best guys into monster attackers with all benefits above + CR lol.

And you even can pick to settle iron or copper..

Swords in general are underrated. IW arguably rivals HBR as a military tech - it's cheaper, Swordsmen are cheaper than HAs, and IW both reveals a resource and gives you the practical benefit of improving jungle, where HBR only gives you units.

AGG swordsmen are particularly good and slaughter city defending archers effortlessly. The Gallic is only a moderate improvement over the standard sword, though, and the Celts start off so far behind in tech that a timely sword rush is something of a long shot.

Teching IW is normally redundant since it's so easy to pick it up in trade, but it can open up some great opportunities in some games.

BornInCantaloup · May 17, 2014

^
Agreed :
a) Swordsmen are top units ;
b) It isn't necessary to self-tech Iron Working to use them ;
c) They can even receive a little help from Catapults.

A Swordsmen war, powered with Mathematics and Monarchy, can take out an AI without slowing down the tech pace on the way to Civil Service.

bhavv · May 19, 2014

Sorry but swordsmen are crap as they get destroyed by axemen. Vultures,War Chariot, and Immortals all come much faster, and crush archers.

I voted Jaguar because other than the super medic use, its useless for attacking anything.

Also regarding BEs, they likely have the worst upgrade over the normal unit, but they are still slightly better than the normal WE, and there's nothing bad about that. Another bonus, though one that's not being taken into consideration is that BEs come with the best leader traits for fast early setup of your cities. Feel free to reroll the map or just WB in some Ivory and enjoy stomping all over the AI with a top tier Civ and unit for early warfare. Also bulbing Engineering is a piece of cake for Sury too because creative, you can be stomping the AI with BEs and trebs quicker than with any other leader also given how much of a stronger position your cities will be in with Cre / Exp.

pandamancer · May 19, 2014

Camel Archer for me. Resourceless is ok, but don't you go for mass draft rifles instead? Walls and Castles are a pain for CA; furthermore, guilds tech is hard to beeline given your mediocre starting techs and traits.

Or you use this UU differently?

rah · May 19, 2014

Since I usually have Military tradition before I have guilds, I rarely build any knights, so CAs would rank high on my useless list.

babar · May 20, 2014

bhavv said:
Sorry but swordsmen are crap as they get destroyed by axemen. Vultures,War Chariot, and Immortals all come much faster, and crush archers.

Your reason for swords being crap is not very good at all (eg. War Chariots get destroyed by spears, and also comparing swords to UUs is unfair). I do agree in the sense that IW is not something to beeline for a devastating early rush (Rome excepted), but as part of a stack Swords are very useful horse and Archer killers.

bhavv · May 21, 2014

War chariots can be obtained much much quicker than an opponent can connect copper.

By the time you get to IW, most of the AI will have metal connected.

Swordsmen have no window of opportunity to be used before axemen, the only time they will work is if an opponent has no metal.

And anyway, the swordsman itself isn't a UU, just a useless unit with very little chance to be successfully used.

Fippy · May 21, 2014

Going from one extreme to another

Swords are not very good but they are also not that bad, HAs are clearly better cos if you use early units with strong counters (Spears and Axes) you usually at least would like 2mp speed.

But Swords can be really good for taking barb cities, Axes are too weak against hill cities with 4 archers sitting inside and you really do not want to tech anything special just for barb cities so swords with an IW trade are often best.

NihilZero · May 21, 2014

I feel sorry for those who have missed out on the pleasure of swordsmen, they really are quite good fun! :lol:

As for saying that swordsmen (a generic unit) are bad because they are inferior to the best UUs in the game, well I'm sorry, but that is an absurd argument for reasons too obvious to be worth going into.

Like any other unit, they are best used at an advantage. No point in sending them against axes. But, copper can be hard to find and if you get to IW before your enemies, then you can make sure they never get iron either.

I would say that HAs are better against metal equipped targets, but HAs are more expensive both in terms of hammers and tech, so they damned well should be better.

Let's put it this way - axe rushes are entirely viable on pretty much every level (never tried a Deity one), and swords are far superior against archers than axemen. Ergo, swordsmen can work. If you don't believe me, try it.

Tatran · May 21, 2014

NihilZero said:
swords are far superior against archers than axemen.

Maybe it's me, but I don't see much difference between unit with 5 :strength:

or a unit with 6 :strength:

.
The amount of battle rounds to win (to kill the archer) is probably the same in most situations.

What is the most useless unique unit?

What is the most useless unique unit?

Navy SEAL

Camel Archer

Jaguar

Bowman

Numidian Cavalry

Gallic warrior

East Indiaman

Oromo Warrior

Panzer

Phalanx

Landsknecht

Samurai

Ballista Elephant

Hwacha

Skirmisher

Holkan

Dog Soldier

Janissary

Conquistador

Cossack

Berserker

Vulture

Berserker

Impi

None of the above (please specify)

Settled Great Scientist

Dictator of RF

Chieftain

Dictator of RF

Deity

Deity

Mycro Junkie

Deity

jolly yellow giant

Friday,13 June,I Collapse

WHEOOHRNY

Agent of Chaos

Glorious World Dictator

Prince

Deity

King

Glorious World Dictator

Mycro Junkie

WHEOOHRNY

Deity

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