Help with culture victory

I just don't get it... also, sorry if this has been discussed before.

So I recently got BNW and after a few trial runs I started playing France on immortal, going for culture. (Standard, Pangaea.) I usually play on emperor but had recently moved up.

As far as I can tell everything is done correctly. I had five huge cities towards the end, three of them pumping out great artists. I got most of the culture wonders in Paris and filled them all with theming art. Filled almost all the museums with art ot artifacts, paired if possible. Had hotels, airports and internet.

When I lost the game (tech) I was generating around 800 in tourism. I had influenced 3 out of 6 civs. Two were rising slowly with almost a third to go and one was actually falling.

What am I doing wrong?

Bard said:

I just don't get it... also, sorry if this has been discussed before.

So I recently got BNW and after a few trial runs I started playing France on immortal, going for culture. (Standard, Pangaea.) I usually play on emperor but had recently moved up.

As far as I can tell everything is done correctly. I had five huge cities towards the end, three of them pumping out great artists. I got most of the culture wonders in Paris and filled them all with theming art. Filled almost all the museums with art ot artifacts, paired if possible. Had hotels, airports and internet.

When I lost the game (tech) I was generating around 800 in tourism. I had influenced 3 out of 6 civs. Two were rising slowly with almost a third to go and one was actually falling.

What am I doing wrong?

Click to expand...

800? shouldn't be...
"rising slowly" means your calculated tourism < their CPT
Which means they'd have to be generating more than 800 cpt which is pretty much impossible. The worst case scenario is you don't have OB, trade routes, shared religion, diplomats, etc and are at -34% so your adjusted tourism would be around 533; it's quite possible for a culture runaway to have that kind of cpt but two of them? (they have to share wonders)... the only explanation would be they are both in golden ages.

Also, if it is falling that usually just means that turn the AI used a great writer... it should resume rising again. There is no way an AI has 800 cpt, esp on immortal, not even deity.

But DO abuse great musicians if you want CV...
If you could attach the save file...

kb27787 said:

800? shouldn't be...
"rising slowly" means your calculated tourism < their CPT
Which means they'd have to be generating more than 800 cpt which is pretty much impossible. The worst case scenario is you don't have OB, trade routes, shared religion, diplomats, etc and are at -34% so your adjusted tourism would be around 533; it's quite possible for a culture runaway to have that kind of cpt but two of them? (they have to share wonders)... the only explanation would be they are both in golden ages.

Also, if it is falling that usually just means that turn the AI used a great writer... it should resume rising again. There is no way an AI has 800 cpt, esp on immortal, not even deity.

But DO abuse great musicians if you want CV...
If you could attach the save file...

Click to expand...

Alright... I hadn't really thought much about the adjusted value and how that works. Religion was chaotic and all over the place. I had open borders with only two civs for quite a while and trade routes with either myself or the wrong civs.

About the cpt. One of them was hosting the world fair I think.

Anyway, I think I understand it now.

Thank you.

Once your tourism is really high, make sure to use the musicians to perform concerts on the AI civs that have the highest culture.

Still, sometimes it's not enough to catch them in time, and you simply have to get in there and take the capital and any other cities you think are creating lots of culture, to put a stop to their culture increasing much more.

As France I assume you filled up Aesthetics? If so, then you should have tried to save up for Great Musician Faith buys. What was your Faith income? Religious city states can be really helpful in the late game if you're low on Faith. Faith buildings are worth it as well, at least until the Great People get too expensive.

Bard said:

Alright... I hadn't really thought much about the adjusted value and how that works. Religion was chaotic and all over the place. I had open borders with only two civs for quite a while and trade routes with either myself or the wrong civs.

About the cpt. One of them was hosting the world fair I think.

Anyway, I think I understand it now.

Thank you.

Click to expand...

Ah the world fair host gets double culture for 20 turns, that explains it (once it wears off you should be able to get to "rising" again. It is especially devastating if they have a golden age at that time and also pop a few great writers (human players will do that). Once the world congress is founded in Renaissance, if you are going for CV, put it up first thing to get it out of the way. This will ensure that even if an AI wins it, they'd just be doubling their ~100 cpt rather than their late game 400 cpt.

As for religion, the majority religion of your cities (not necessary your own) and theirs (also not necessarily their own), if they happen to match you get a tourism boost (easy if there is a very dominant religion nearby)
Diplomats will only help against civs with different ideologies.
Anyway try winning international games (if you have 5 big cities with infrastructure this should be doable)

Kintara said:

As France I assume you filled up Aesthetics? If so, then you should have tried to save up for Great Musician Faith buys. What was your Faith income? Religious city states can be really helpful in the late game if you're low on Faith. Faith buildings are worth it as well, at least until the Great People get too expensive.

Click to expand...

My faith income was nonexistent really... I'm still unsure of the role faith plays in CV. All my great artists were spent into great works.
I think my culture focus was just too late...

If you complete Aesthetics, you can then purchase great artists, musicians, and writers with faith beginning in the (I think) Industrial Era.

Bard said:

I just don't get it... also, sorry if this has been discussed before.

So I recently got BNW and after a few trial runs I started playing France on immortal, going for culture. (Standard, Pangaea.) I usually play on emperor but had recently moved up.

As far as I can tell everything is done correctly. I had five huge cities towards the end, three of them pumping out great artists. I got most of the culture wonders in Paris and filled them all with theming art. Filled almost all the museums with art ot artifacts, paired if possible. Had hotels, airports and internet.

When I lost the game (tech) I was generating around 800 in tourism. I had influenced 3 out of 6 civs. Two were rising slowly with almost a third to go and one was actually falling.

What am I doing wrong?

Click to expand...

Wait...what...how? You can only build one Artist's guild, or am I missing something here?

sendos said:

Wait...what...how? You can only build one Artist's guild, or am I missing something here?

Click to expand...

Great artists, great writers and great musicians, I'm guessing is what he or she meant.

reddishrecue said:

Great artists, great writers and great musicians, I'm guessing is what he or she meant.

Click to expand...

That must be the case. Usually, like the AI, I put all my guilds in the capital, unless I end up producing a city that outgrows the capital itself. This is because I can then capitalize further on the national epic wonder which boosts great people production by 25%.

As for OP, what ideology did you adopt? With culture victories, that plays a major role. Each ideology enhances cultural victory in different ways:
- Freedom: Increased GP rate, Increased base tourism, so the 800 tourism would be boosted to 1060 tourism with broadcast towers.
- Order: Increased GP rate, Works very well if you get ideology early and you influence other civs very early, causing them to revolt if they refuse your ideology. Then get the tourism bonuses and get as much as possible. This will boost your tourism by 68% if other civs adopt Order and are not as happy as your civ.
- Autocracy: Although futurism is a bit weak, it can make a bit of a difference when combined with aestethics and arts funding. Grab cult of personality and DoW the most unpopular civ in game. If you can, bribe the civs to attack them beforehand. Base tourism is boosted by 50% as long as the war lasts. The military edge will also help you steal tourism from other civs.

Also, try playing with the new patch. Culture victory is a bit easier as aestethics is buffed, notably with the 5th policy, whilst science victory is a bit harder (parts take twice as long to build).