Some help please! :)

Hello!

I've read a few guides and whatnot but am having trouble streamlining my Civ5 experience. Partly because I suck at the game, partly because most guides make a few reasonable assumptions that simply do not apply to me.

I mainly play as China (I do branch out sometimes), and only on huge maps (epic pacing), mostly continental. I play on Prince, because I don't play that much and am not at a level where I play this game for the challenge yet. I turn off time victory, but victory conditions matter little to me since I don't really play this game to win: if at one point I consider my civ to be in a good position to win and the turns get too long, I usually call it quits.

Things I like:
- Tall AND wide
- Social policies!
- Wonders! (I know, conflict of interest right here, but keep in mind I do play on Prince; I especially like wonders that give unit promotions or other permanent nation-wide boni such as Pyramids)
- Lots of hammers!
- Lots of gold and make friends with all the city states
- Conquest! I keep them as puppets mostly. I also like having allies that don't end up hating me for weird reasons (such as annihilating common enemies). They do tend to end up hating me

Things I usually do:
- Liberty -> Commerce -> Rationalism -> Order (I pick up a point or 2 for Tradition and Honor too most of the time)
- I usually dash for Great Library, but every time it feels like I wasted my time even if I do grab it (I'm incorrigible)
- I prioritize buildings and wonders above units (this includes settlers and workers). This leads to slow to non-existant expansion and a weak military.

The problems:
- I never could build cities as early as I should. I could be researching Chu Ko Nus and only have 2 cities. And I never end up very wide despite wanting to do it. I blame wonders
- Happiness issues as soon as I start capturing cities. This plagues me in most playthroughs
- My cities build just about everything. I just don't know which buildings to skip in which cities
- Barbarians: if set to raging, I have loads of troubles handling them. Yes this is with China which is supposed to be a great military civ
- Tradition vs Liberty: I'm not sure what to go for
- Commerce vs Rationalism: I usually can only finish 1 of them

So considering all of the above and my objective (which is not to win but to make a civ that fits the list of things I like), any tips are appreciated!

As a change of pace, and to find out what a different sort of game (and game pace) might feel like, play one game where you don't build any wonders -- just build your empire -- build settlers, and units, compete for CS loyalties, and bully your neighbors. In some respects it will be painful beyond belief (Great Library is still available at turn 140?!!!! Must .. Not ... Succumb), but you will have an entirely different perspective on the game.

Civlization 5 is a "decision-making" game. Being successful at it requires making the right decisions, and that requires calculation. Underneath all the pretty pixels is a number-crunching engine that is constantly making calculations. I'd be prepared to bet that the most successful players are those who are not seduced by the pretty pixels and consistently make very calculated decisions. However, those calculations are not likely to be limited to what they see immediately in front of them, but they will probably take into account what is likely to happen over the next 50-100 turns. This all comes from experience -- just as playing tennis requires practice, so does playing this game.

I know from experience that it is very difficult to break bad habits, but it is essential to do something different if you want to get satisfaction from the game. For me, watching some videos was quite an eye-opener. This one is quite sobering:

https://youtu.be/H299LD6vdYQ

He finds himself near the Huns and has to fight very hard to survive. But it shows what can be done.

Also, have a look at Acken's wide Liberty guide.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=559009

There is plenty of good advice there. Acken is one of the best players around, so believe what he says.

Ultimately, you have to think about what you enjoy. If you enjoy building cities, then build them! But be aware that you have to make choices. You cannot do everything. That is the whole point of the game. Basically, you have to make a cost/benefit analysis for everything you do, and make a calculated decision.

To conclude with your listed problems:

"I never build cities as early as I should" -- well, build them earlier! Take the left side of Liberty and after you have got the free Settler, spam out two or three more (depending on the map).
"Happiness issues as soon as I start capturing cities" -- either raze the cities, or capture cities instead of building your own.
"My cities build just about everything" -- start by only building Monument, Granary, Library and Market (apart from units) and see how you get on. You will also need Colosseums and Circuses at appropriate times. As for units, build mainly Archers / Composite Bows / Crossbows to begin with.
"Barbarians" -- don't set them to raging. It just wrecks your enjoyment. It's not a question of China being a great military Civ -- you are on Prince, and the other Civs won't have enough units to help you wipe out the Barbs.
"Tradition vs Liberty" -- three or four city Tradition going into Rationalism is the easiest strategy to play. Liberty is tricky. You have to place your cities in good spots where each can pick up a new luxury that you don't already have, otherwise the happiness penalties will get you. You could play Tradition until you have more experience.
"Commerce vs Rationalism" -- don't try and do them both. If you play Tradition, go for the latter and go all-out for Science. Commerce is good if you go Liberty or Honor and are aiming for a Domination victory.

As I said, it's about choices. Choosing one thing means letting go of another. Choose a path and stick to it. Trying to do everything is a recipe for confusion, and means that you don't have a plan. It results in the kind of dissatisfaction you describe, when you sort of meander through a game and end up by quitting.

Best of luck, and I hope you find more enjoyment from the game!

Thank you guys for the help! You guys hit the nail right on the head, my biggest problems are wonder whoring and lacking the proper knowledge to weigh my opportunity costs.

I found time to play one game, here's the result:


I started in a jungle, had ample food but not many hammers (all the gems/hills tiles were jungles), though later on I did chop down the jungles. I have full Tradition and Commerce at this point. Didn't go for Great Library at start which helped a ton, but I did start building wonders when I started having spare hammers. Got lucky early game, grabbing a settler and a worker from ruins, then grabbing a settler (turned worker) from each of my 2 neighbors. And I just realized the game was set to Settler and not Prince... sigh

Some questions nonetheless:
- Should I have chopped down the jungles earlier to place mines? I've let my capital grow to a fair size before starting on the mining;
- How should I value placing down more cities mid-game? With the kind of gold output I have, I can buy enough building that they develop fast. But are they worth it?
- What to do with a city that has all the essential buildings down already (and assuming I don't need more workers/caravans)? Wonders? Produce wealth/science? Pop some barracks/armory and use as unit factories (funnily enough these cities usually aren't my biggest hammer cities)?

I think I really didn't play China to her strength here, as the worker grabbing was the only warfare I did until now, and I only have 4 cities so my unique building is providing me a whopping 12 gold total (actually less, I think? As 1 less maintenance does not equal +1 gold since it doesn't benefit from markets?)

If you like playing China I would strongly recommend watching Acken's video of playing China:

https://youtu.be/J0Cp3c5369w?list=PL5IXV43xjKWRhfjKKYbtNoT92HQXq0YIj

Also, you should probably have a look at Consentient's guide on Domination.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=547630

As to your first question: I think received wisdom is that it is better to preserve jungles and build trade posts on them for the science output they give.

For the rest, you have to ask yourself "what do I want to achieve?" If you have chosen China because they are a good domination Civ, and you want to play a domination game, then you should be beelining crucial military techs (Crossbow, Cannon, Artillery, Tanks) and pumping out units. If you are capturing cities (as you should be in domination) you do not need to build them. Equally, you do not need to build wonders because you capture those, too. Incidentally, in domination games it is good to have cities that have production because you will need to churn out units fairly quickly at the beginning.

If you are not interested in playing domination, then you need to ask yourself why you have chosen China, because they are not well suited to other kinds of game.

Received wisdom also states that science is king in this game, so anything that improves your science output is likely to be beneficial (provided you are are not next to a raging warmonger, and you neglect your military -- you need a certain amount of defence or you won't survive to make use of the science).

I dont geddit. You mention a load of things about the way you play that are bad, but say you don't know how to get better.

If you are playing on Prince, what does it matter anyway man?

To me it sound like one part of you wants the challenge of winning at the high level, but you are too stubbon to change or something

Thanks mbb ^^ The tidbit about the whole "you don't have to build wonders" is an eye-opener for me. Do I need to annex the cities with wonders or is puppeting enough?

Also when you say beelining for military techs, while taking into consideration that science is important, does it mean catching up in science-related techs after each military milestone I reach?

I often find that conquering is the easy part, but can't work out the benefices (gold/culture/science/hammers if I invest lots) vs the penalties (research cost/happiness) of more cities. I often keep em puppeted so as to not add another penalty (policy cost) but it seems like an unpopular choice? Am I missing anything in the comparison? Seems like # of cities mostly give more gold at the detriment of science?

My jungle mines were on gems/gold though so I had to chop them down eventually.

@hiawafer I guess I'm half hoping that someone would come out and say "this particular bad habit isn't a big deal in Prince difficulty" or stuff like "you should build more workers because there are less of them out there to steal on Prince", since most guides are telling you what to do to get a Diety win.

But it looks like I'll have to give up the wonder whoring no matter which difficulty I play

Capturing a wonder is a great way to get the ongoing benefit of that wonder, but it will not give you the upfront/one-time benefits of that wonder. So capturing the Great Library will get you +3 science, +1 culture, +1 GS point, and 2 great writing slots, but it will not get you a free tech or a free library. Thankfully, the ongoing benefit of many wonders is pretty compelling, and for some wonders the only benefits are ongoing benefits (there are no one-time benefits from, e.g., Statue of Zeus, Big Ben, Forbidden Palace or Machu Picchu, to name a few).

Also, conquering is the only way to get wonders that are only unlocked by social policies that you have not taken (e.g., unless you open Tradition, conquering is the only way to get Hanging Gardens, same goes for Zeus and Honor, or Big Ben and Commerce, etc.).

Prince level is designed to be forgiving of errors and sloppy play -- it is basically for those who are new to the game, so that they can learn without being destroyed inside 30 moves, even it they spawn next to the Huns. But there is surprisingly little difference in the levels until you get to Deity, which does demand great efficiency.

Paradoxically, in some ways the game is easier on the higher levels. Barbs are wiped out quicker, the AIs have more money, so you can sell them lots of things and earn more yourself, you can leech science from them with caravans because they tech faster, and worker stealing is easier because the AIs have more workers. There are no doubt other advantages that I have forgotten.

I really would encourage you to look at Consentient's Domination guide (link above) and examine the Tech Tree. It will give you a good idea of what you should be doing when it comes to research. Typically, a player who is aiming for Domination will beeline Construction->Philosophy->Machinery->Education->Chemistry->Dynamite. Alternatively, they may go Philosophy->Construction->Education->Machinery etc. On a Standard map, you try to get three cities up as quickly as possible, build Libraries in them all, get Philosophy around turn 65, and build the National College, which gives you the fastest Science early game. You build or capture other cities after that. Highly skilled players can clear a lot of a standard map just using Crossbows. And if you can get to Artillery (which comes with Dynamite) before the AI does, you can do a lot of damage until they get to Flight. But look at Consentient's guide. It is worth it.

Cities which do not have a luxury that you did not have before will just be a happiness drain. Usually best to raze them, unless they have some sort of strategic value. Crudely stated, each city needs its own luxury. As to annexing them, there is often a point when it is beneficial to annex so that you can control what they produce, but that is a judgement that you have to make based on what is going on in the game. You can't do it if you don't have the happiness.

Looking at your screenshot I see no farms at all while you have kept all your jungle. Those river tiles need farms on them to back up all those production tiles. They will produce much more food esp after Civil Service. The bananas are good so they can stay.

If I have a surfet of food I keep maybe 1-3 jungle for trading posts. They'll make more science when one of the Rationalism policies comes along (forget the name, sorry). Spam trading posts in puppet cities to keep the pop down and make money for you.