"Shadow" schedule

Fort- gives +10% defense to anyone in the tile, and +5% defense to allies within a 1 plot range
It means if you have units adjacent to the fort, they get a defensive bonus as well. I don't think it stacks with the bonus to the fort tile itself. So it's helpful to have forts even if the people actually on them are never attacked.
 
*sniff* This is going to be the best Xmas ever...

I never really played with Guilds before in vanilla, as I bought BtS purely for FFH2. As a result, I had no base reading to go on for what Guilds would be like. But these are amazing. I couldn't have imagined better, honestly. I love events, and these seem to capitalize on them. Loki's event structure sounds like a good way to organize it all, as well. I think everyone can like atleast one of those themes for their play style.

Looking at it on paper, my concerns are few. I had the same question as Xienwolf did about how to get your first mercenary. Looking at all the up coming changes specifically with Shadow, it is obvious that stealth and assassination are going to be strong. Sidar with Aerons Bounty and the Council of Esus comes immediately to mind. I know that certain combinations work better than others, but nothing has really been said about effective ways to counter espionage. As things stand right now, I am a little worried at how powerful stealth will be.

The fort idea and the pirate harbor idea are ones that have been talked about on the forums for a while, and I all for them. Forts are generally useless, so this tweak you mentioned is very nice. Any chance of making them specialized even further as others have mentioned? (i.e., Malakim ones creating fireballs, Elohim keeping back hell terrain. I forget who first put out that idea...)

All in all, it looks amazing. Nine more days...
 
Very interesting implementation of the guilds, I'm very much looking forward to trying them in game.
It's possible to found more than one guild, right? Also in the same city? Is there any exclusiveness, or would it theoretically be possible to found/have all guilds in a single city?

Forts: Awesome! I always wanted something to make forts better, and this is a great step in that direction. If we now get a map script with towers placed in choke points it's almost perfect! :)
 
Damn you Kael, now i know why that pedia entry of Kael Coalbane is like that... its based on real life. You are both evil and a brilliant genius. Such seduction and torment to innocent fans...
And those henchmen of yours do a fantastic job as well....

Cant wait to grab my hands on that masterpiece... and see what you didnt enter into the available info...

One question though? Is it possible to see all the events/possible outcomes/requirement in one of the files?
 
Fort- gives +10% defense to anyone in the tile and +5% defense to allies within a 1 plot range
Castle- gives +25% defense and +10% heal rate to anyone in the tile and a +10% defense to allies within a 2 plot range
Citadel- gives +40% defense, +20% heal rate and +1 visibility to anyone in the tile and a +15% defense to allies within a 3 plot range

Given enough time ancient towers now upgrade to castles. These defensive range bonuses are disabled if an enemy unit occupies the fort.

The AI has been adjusted to scatter the occasional Fort around, but never clump them together (this was the hardest part of setting up this system). Since we link into the terrain defense modifier system (the same system that says hills and forests grant defense bonuses) the AI does a good job of preferring to move through tiles that have “fort cover”. We also tweaked the AI so that in times of war it will station units in forts to maintain the bonus.

Simple question, and perhaps it's just because it's early in the morning that I have to ask: are the bonuses in addition? That is, will a fully upgraded Fort (Citadel) have +75% defense, +30% heal rate, and +30% defense to allies?

I would assume so, due the nature of the pirate cove upgrades.

Also, do ancient towers have fort bonuses?
 
Guilds - impressive... But responsible feedback may be after long testing. Well... that is why we are here. :) Now it is clear only that continuous tuning is needed.

Forts - very nice! Now we can build an echeloned defence. ;) But I think they should be synchronized with city buildings: let rename walls into fort and give it the same bonuses. The same with castle and citadel... Otherwise logic loses. Why city have no bonuses of the fort improvement?

Proposition: let build a wall improvement (like the Great Wall). The enemy should make several attacks on it before passing (with no lose of health). Protection from raiders and blitz.

And allow casting "Wall of stone" in forts. And maybe culture production spells.
 
I'm not really sure about the no pillaging in surrounding tiles you spoke about (as an eventuallity) it would become really hard to pillage an enemy... especially his strategic ressources. and that is currently a really powerful means of waging war.

maybe a chance of failed pillaging instead of baring it... ? maybe only when citadel ?
 
Love the new Forts - would like to see that they stop pillaging at least as long as they are manned by allied troops...
 
I'm not really sure about the no pillaging in surrounding tiles you spoke about (as an eventuallity) it would become really hard to pillage an enemy... especially his strategic ressources. and that is currently a really powerful means of waging war.

maybe a chance of failed pillaging instead of baring it... ? maybe only when citadel ?

I like the chance of failure idea, how about:
+35% chance of failure around a fort (one square range),
+35% aditional chance around a castle (two square range),
+25% additional around a citadel (three square range)
so only next to a citadel there is (almost) no pillaging
 
I like this interpretation of Guilds - each one is pretty unique and I see that the idea was to have them founded and spread in all different ways. However, almost all of them seem to rely on events (making them essentially random - I can't just *choose* to pursue a guild in most cases, I have to wait and see if it founds itself). And it would have been nice if at least one or two of them were similar to the way Corporations work - either in being able to found at will once you have the required techs, providing resources, providing food/commerce, etc.

Some sort of mana-providing guild would have been interesting too, and I'm sure you could find a way to keep it from being too overpowered...

Overall, positive impression of guilds, but just wish they were more useful/reliable.
 
Considering that people are likely to build the fort ON their strategic resource, that isn't really the issue with pillaging. It is more to have it just outside of the corners on your fat cross to keep most of your city from being stripped of production once it goes citadel. Or to protect roads for a small stretch in remote areas.
 
Huh, so a citadel can only be inside the city radius then... Not sure I am liking them quite as much now :( No production bonuses for them I am assuming, so it means I cannot actually place them on anything that I would WANT a citadel on :(
 
From what I've read and then can imagine about how the Guilds will play, I'm thinking they will be a Very nice addition to the game. I very much like the diversity of their attributes and the extra flavor they bring to the game. They are far Far more interesting than if they had followed the corporation model. Thanks guys for spending so much time on the flavor and the fleshing out of this mod. It keeps getting deeper and more interesting. Great fun. Brilliant design.

I'm also looking forward to the Forts, Castles, and Citadels. I've longed for the old Civ3 ZOC forts, but your method is even better. Fortifications will finally have a real presence on the battlefield. Pirate Harbors and Ports will also be very nice. Not only will they add extra flavor, but they add something to a civ that I thought needed a little something extra.
 
That forts must be inside the fat cross in order to become tough things doesn´t convince me. As xienwolf says, with no commerce/production/whatever bonus - could be experience to military units produced in the city or some other similar boost, perhaps related to the adoption of certain civics - they´d be useful on desert tiles only, more or less...

Also, no possibility of border fortresses, then?

As for the pillaging, I´d say the "anti-pillaging effect" of forts should simply be their very presence in the area and the troops which garrison it.
 
Huh, so a citadel can only be inside the city radius then... Not sure I am liking them quite as much now :( No production bonuses for them I am assuming, so it means I cannot actually place them on anything that I would WANT a citadel on :(

makes sense given the HUGE radius they have at the top level. You definitely don't have to build many of them with that range. Btw, are Forts pillageable ?

I'm not too sold on the Cult of Dragons. It seems even less attractive than when it was a Religion. But I guess I should try first, after reading everything though, now I'm not sure I will survive till the 16th... :cry:
 
My intent was that forts and coves would upgrade even if they weren't being worked (or in the city radius at all). The bolded line in the following says that they will upgrade if they are being worked or if the improvement is marked as builfable outside of borders (which forts and coves are).

Code:
void CvPlot::doImprovementUpgrade()
{
	if (getImprovementType() != NO_IMPROVEMENT)
	{
		ImprovementTypes eImprovementUpdrade = (ImprovementTypes)GC.getImprovementInfo(getImprovementType()).getImprovementUpgrade();
		if (eImprovementUpdrade != NO_IMPROVEMENT)
		{
[b]			if (isBeingWorked() || GC.getImprovementInfo(eImprovementUpdrade).isOutsideBorders())[/b]
			{
				changeUpgradeProgress(GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).getImprovementUpgradeRate());

				if (getUpgradeProgress() >= GC.getGameINLINE().getImprovementUpgradeTime(getImprovementType()))
				{
					setImprovementType(eImprovementUpdrade);
				}
			}
		}
	}
}

But Nikis-Knight is correct, this function isn't even called unless the tile is being worked (which makes the bolded line useless). But its an easy change to make so that it works as this code suggests. Firaxis already did all the hard work, they just never realized it doesnt really work since they don't have improvements that upgrade outside of borders.
 
Absolutely awesome. I'm really glad to hear about both the guilds and the forts. I'm a sucker for huge defenses. :)
 
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