suggestion for new civic: multiculturalism
- Thread starter Noriad2
- Start date
Brackenspore
King
- Joined
- May 5, 2015
- Messages
- 603
Taxman66
King
I don't think I agree on needing a new civic; however I suggest the first one's name being either 'Intolerant' or 'homogeneous'.
Brackenspore
King
- Joined
- May 5, 2015
- Messages
- 603
What about new Building or National Wonder 'Diaspora' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora and my NWs 
Minority Rights
Enables: Sexual Minority Community (National Wonder), Ethnic Minority Community (National Wonder), Religious Minority Community (National Wonder), Age Minority Community (National Wonder), Disability Minority Community (National Wonder)
Sexual Minority Community
+1
+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Democracy, Federal, Legislature, Egalitarianism, Free Church or Atheist
+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Theocracy or Totalitarianism, Martial Law or Grid or Mind Control, Divine Right, State Church or Intolerant, Propaganda
Requires City Size of at least 13
11000
Ethnic Minority Community
+1 in 8 Largest Cities with Republic or Democracy, Federal or Confederacy, Legislature, Free Market, Volunteer Army, Free Church, Open Borders, Language Education or Universal Translator
+1 in 8 Largest Cities with Totalitarianism, Grid or Mind Control, Single Party, Nationalist, Planned, Intolerant, Closed Borders or Skilled Workers Only or Secure Borders
Requires City Size of at least 13
11000
Religious Minority Community
+1 in 8 Largest Cities with Democracy, Legislature, Egalitarianism, Pacifism, Free Church or Atheist, Open Borders, E-Education, Green Agriculture
+1 in 8 Largest Cities with Totalitarianism or Technocracy, Martial Law or Grid or Mind Control, Nationalist, Intolerant or Atheist, Closed Borders, Propaganda
Requires City Size of at least 13
11000
Age Minority Community
+1 in 8 Largest Cities with Democracy or Technocracy, Legislature, Egalitarianism or Marxist, Regulated, Socialized, Socialized Labor
1 in 8 Largest Cities with Totalitarianism or Bureaucracy, Free Market
Requires City Size of at least 13
11000
Disability Minority Community
+1 in 8 Largest Cities with Democracy or Technocracy, Grid or Mind Control, Legislature or Separation of Powers, Corpo-Nation or Marxist or Egalitarianism, Regulated, Cloning, Superhuman, Socialized Labor or Post-Scarcity
+1 in 8 Largest Cities with Totalitarianism or Bureaucracy, Free Market, Corporate, Propaganda, Skilled Labor
Requires City Size of at least 13
11000
Minority Rights
Enables: Sexual Minority Community (National Wonder), Ethnic Minority Community (National Wonder), Religious Minority Community (National Wonder), Age Minority Community (National Wonder), Disability Minority Community (National Wonder)
Sexual Minority Community
+1
+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Democracy, Federal, Legislature, Egalitarianism, Free Church or Atheist+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Theocracy or Totalitarianism, Martial Law or Grid or Mind Control, Divine Right, State Church or Intolerant, PropagandaRequires City Size of at least 13
11000
Ethnic Minority Community
+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Republic or Democracy, Federal or Confederacy, Legislature, Free Market, Volunteer Army, Free Church, Open Borders, Language Education or Universal Translator+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Totalitarianism, Grid or Mind Control, Single Party, Nationalist, Planned, Intolerant, Closed Borders or Skilled Workers Only or Secure BordersRequires City Size of at least 13
11000
Religious Minority Community
+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Democracy, Legislature, Egalitarianism, Pacifism, Free Church or Atheist, Open Borders, E-Education, Green Agriculture+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Totalitarianism or Technocracy, Martial Law or Grid or Mind Control, Nationalist, Intolerant or Atheist, Closed Borders, PropagandaRequires City Size of at least 13
11000
Age Minority Community
+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Democracy or Technocracy, Legislature, Egalitarianism or Marxist, Regulated, Socialized, Socialized Labor1
in 8 Largest Cities with Totalitarianism or Bureaucracy, Free MarketRequires City Size of at least 13
11000
Disability Minority Community
+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Democracy or Technocracy, Grid or Mind Control, Legislature or Separation of Powers, Corpo-Nation or Marxist or Egalitarianism, Regulated, Cloning, Superhuman, Socialized Labor or Post-Scarcity+1
in 8 Largest Cities with Totalitarianism or Bureaucracy, Free Market, Corporate, Propaganda, Skilled LaborRequires City Size of at least 13
11000
One of these things ...
Seriously, 'Ageism' is not the same thing as the others. You change you gender with a very invasive operation and still lose your fertility, you change your ethnic group with many operations (think Michael Jackson), you change your religion (if you are serious about it before and after) by deep introspection, you improve your disability (if you're lucky) by a string of operations ...
You change your age by ... (drumroll) aging. That's it.
Edit: And what the ... do you mean by 'minority'? As far as I'm aware, you cannot call either gender a true minority. And why does it make people sick if we have equal rights of men and women?
Seriously, 'Ageism' is not the same thing as the others. You change you gender with a very invasive operation and still lose your fertility, you change your ethnic group with many operations (think Michael Jackson), you change your religion (if you are serious about it before and after) by deep introspection, you improve your disability (if you're lucky) by a string of operations ...
You change your age by ... (drumroll) aging. That's it.
Edit: And what the ... do you mean by 'minority'? As far as I'm aware, you cannot call either gender a true minority. And why does it make people sick if we have equal rights of men and women?
Brackenspore
King
- Joined
- May 5, 2015
- Messages
- 603
In other words, this is about sexual orientation, alright. I suppose there is nothing now about gender equality. To be fair, there is already a bit about that.
But orientation is also something you cannot change on a whim - which is exactly one of those things people got wrong in the earlier days. So - my main point still stands. One of those things ...
Edit: You do realize that Free Church is supposed to be something like the Catholic Church? That's why it gets available at Papacy.
Regarding the boni / mali: With respect to Sexual (Orientation) Minority, I would change Free Church to Secular (the most free religion civic) and remove Martial Law (it is assumed that a lot of Spartans were gay).
With respect to Ethnic Minority, I would just add every language civic from world language to telepathic communication.
With respect to Religious Minority, first of all, you added Atheism for both lists. It should only be in the
list. Other than that, I would change Free Church to Secular, put in the civics Rapid and Instant Education after E-Education, and take out Nationalist - ethnic and religious oppression are not interchangeable.
With respect to Age Minority (if you really want to keep it), I would take out Technocracy - kids are not a valuable part of the workforce. I would also take out democracy, because I really cannot imagine a toddler at the voting booth. And I would take out Free Market, because - money is money and being able to market gadgets at younger customers is a splendid idea as far as the market is concerned.
With respect to Disability Minority, I would take out Grid and Mind Control, because that kind of influence can go both ways, and for the same reason I would take out Bureaucracy.
Also, you might want to make these buildings a little less generic.
But orientation is also something you cannot change on a whim - which is exactly one of those things people got wrong in the earlier days. So - my main point still stands. One of those things ...
Edit: You do realize that Free Church is supposed to be something like the Catholic Church? That's why it gets available at Papacy.
Regarding the boni / mali: With respect to Sexual (Orientation) Minority, I would change Free Church to Secular (the most free religion civic) and remove Martial Law (it is assumed that a lot of Spartans were gay).
With respect to Ethnic Minority, I would just add every language civic from world language to telepathic communication.
With respect to Religious Minority, first of all, you added Atheism for both lists. It should only be in the
list. Other than that, I would change Free Church to Secular, put in the civics Rapid and Instant Education after E-Education, and take out Nationalist - ethnic and religious oppression are not interchangeable.With respect to Age Minority (if you really want to keep it), I would take out Technocracy - kids are not a valuable part of the workforce. I would also take out democracy, because I really cannot imagine a toddler at the voting booth. And I would take out Free Market, because - money is money and being able to market gadgets at younger customers is a splendid idea as far as the market is concerned.
With respect to Disability Minority, I would take out Grid and Mind Control, because that kind of influence can go both ways, and for the same reason I would take out Bureaucracy.
Also, you might want to make these buildings a little less generic.
Very interesting- I really think mixing up treatment of minorities more generally is not helpful- the game does not have gay minorities or disabled minorities*- it does have minority cultures though.
People seem to want to apply negatives (crime, instability,disease) to multiculturalism for no apparent reason. We must remember we already have a Closed Borders/Open Borders Civic which seems to deal with a lot of these questions- this is where the "negative" or positives of immigration should be handled
As far as I know the game already has a city flipping mechanism when a culture "overtakes" another if it can join a neighbouring civ.
Then we are told that evolving cultures is coming as a game feature- how does that fit in? Personally I have suggested before using a civ to determine colonial policy (and internal). take for example the French model of let's call it Metropolitanism- all people living in France (proper or colonial were technically French citizens and expected to act that way. It's a risky approach because it empowers people while the long term idea is that they forget they are Arabs or whatever. Imagine the complexity of interplay with Religious Civics etc.
Then look at the British model. The subject people are never going to be treated as British citizens. Their role is to serve the Empire through Trade- the Empire soaks up their ideas and technologies while the Empire "serves" them by "civilizing" and spreading technology and new ideas....and so on...
So forget about gay, disabled other "minorities" they are not part of the game. The Civic required is one which decides how the main culture interacts with others- does it seek to bury them, soak them up, encourage them as separate cultures or to merge with them into newer cultures
* There could be a role for the likes of Gay Rights, Disabled Rights as techs or worldviews which become available at some point in a line of tolerance based techs but I'd see them more as simply unlocking buildings or providing a Great Person Bonus
People seem to want to apply negatives (crime, instability,disease) to multiculturalism for no apparent reason. We must remember we already have a Closed Borders/Open Borders Civic which seems to deal with a lot of these questions- this is where the "negative" or positives of immigration should be handled
As far as I know the game already has a city flipping mechanism when a culture "overtakes" another if it can join a neighbouring civ.
Then we are told that evolving cultures is coming as a game feature- how does that fit in? Personally I have suggested before using a civ to determine colonial policy (and internal). take for example the French model of let's call it Metropolitanism- all people living in France (proper or colonial were technically French citizens and expected to act that way. It's a risky approach because it empowers people while the long term idea is that they forget they are Arabs or whatever. Imagine the complexity of interplay with Religious Civics etc.
Then look at the British model. The subject people are never going to be treated as British citizens. Their role is to serve the Empire through Trade- the Empire soaks up their ideas and technologies while the Empire "serves" them by "civilizing" and spreading technology and new ideas....and so on...
So forget about gay, disabled other "minorities" they are not part of the game. The Civic required is one which decides how the main culture interacts with others- does it seek to bury them, soak them up, encourage them as separate cultures or to merge with them into newer cultures
* There could be a role for the likes of Gay Rights, Disabled Rights as techs or worldviews which become available at some point in a line of tolerance based techs but I'd see them more as simply unlocking buildings or providing a Great Person Bonus
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Guys,
Interesting thread, but really you've had 2 mods till now make comments. Toffer said looks like Open Borders. DH had a bit more to say. But no other team member has commented. That should be noticed. You are having a "game disconnect" with this whole idea.
Nice debate/discussion for those involved. But as a team member I would vote No on including this particular idea into the mod. If it were just a basic generalization I might not care. But this is going off the deep end for a Mod to incorporate, impho. We have enough to balance without this.
@Brackenspore,
You are very prolific without a doubt, but you have to realize your Ideas will only be cherry picked. They will not be incorporated in mass. Not trying to discourage but just giving you a heads up. Be realistic, maybe 10% of what you've posted might make it into the mod. You of course will be give full credit for what is used.
JosEPh
Interesting thread, but really you've had 2 mods till now make comments. Toffer said looks like Open Borders. DH had a bit more to say. But no other team member has commented. That should be noticed. You are having a "game disconnect" with this whole idea.
Nice debate/discussion for those involved. But as a team member I would vote No on including this particular idea into the mod. If it were just a basic generalization I might not care. But this is going off the deep end for a Mod to incorporate, impho. We have enough to balance without this.
@Brackenspore,
You are very prolific without a doubt, but you have to realize your Ideas will only be cherry picked. They will not be incorporated in mass. Not trying to discourage but just giving you a heads up. Be realistic, maybe 10% of what you've posted might make it into the mod. You of course will be give full credit for what is used.
JosEPh
@Brackenspore:
Joe is not wrong, though having threads that are completely packed with ideas is never a bad thing.
Even though only a few ideas will be directly put in the mod other ideas may inspire future development nevertheless.
Joe is not wrong, though having threads that are completely packed with ideas is never a bad thing.
Even though only a few ideas will be directly put in the mod other ideas may inspire future development nevertheless.
Guys,
Interesting thread, but really you've had 2 mods till now make comments. Toffer said looks like Open Borders. DH had a bit more to say. But no other team member has commented. That should be noticed. You are having a "game disconnect" with this whole idea.
Nice debate/discussion for those involved. But as a team member I would vote No on including this particular idea into the mod. If it were just a basic generalization I might not care. But this is going off the deep end for a Mod to incorporate, impho. We have enough to balance without this.
@Brackenspore,
You are very prolific without a doubt, but you have to realize your Ideas will only be cherry picked. They will not be incorporated in mass. Not trying to discourage but just giving you a heads up. Be realistic, maybe 10% of what you've posted might make it into the mod. You of course will be give full credit for what is used.
JosEPh
Agreed (although I do think any evolving cultures mechanism will have to deal with how different cultures interact within a Civ)
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
If and When we ever get to "Evolving Cultures" 1st. Then we'll worry about interaction. This could be several years down the road. Or it could all fall apart abruptly if something would cause 1 or 2 of the Modders to no longer be availabe. Real Life has a habit of intruding on even the Most diligent.
JosEPh
Acularius
King
I don't think the crime thing is very realistic for any form of culture related civic.
If anything diversity would effect the rate of change, aka, effect the length of anarchy for a 'civilization'.
Granted my viewpoint comes from being a Canadian, and I think we've had a vastly different experience with multiculturalism than our neighbors in the USA.
Past that, I think Open/Closed borders, Skilled Workers, etc. branch of the civics tree works quite well for how the game currently functions.
If anything diversity would effect the rate of change, aka, effect the length of anarchy for a 'civilization'.
Granted my viewpoint comes from being a Canadian, and I think we've had a vastly different experience with multiculturalism than our neighbors in the USA.
Past that, I think Open/Closed borders, Skilled Workers, etc. branch of the civics tree works quite well for how the game currently functions.
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