Romans VS Mongols in real life

Again this seems like an extremely specious line of logic to me. I have no doubt that we train our soldiers to kill more effectively by removing psychological barriers, but I don't see any proof that that wasn't the case before as well. What I really don't understand is why you're excluding extracombat atrocities from the picture; further, I find the term "extra-combat" somewhat objectionable, as it paints a picture of Timur, Genghis, et. al. as peaceful agriculturalists and pastoral nomads just harvesting crops and raising livestock, rather than cutting down entire cities to the last man, woman, and child. I fail to see what is so non-combatative about an army slaughtering hundreds of thousands of unarmed civilians in a single day.
What Flying Pig said. It's just a different psychology. Perhaps simply there is more empathy for the fellow soldier than otherwise.

I disagree. I don't think that for example an atheist is more willing to risk his life than a guy who believes in some sort of afterlife. And aggressiveness (= willingness to attack to kill) always requires more boldness and risk-taking than a more defensive posture in battle (i.e. fighting to survive rather than to kill).

And this entire "psychology of killing" thing posted by Hygro is based mostly on experiences from 20th century conflicts, most of which saw mass (millions) armies of mostly conscripts. Ancient or Medieval armies were smaller but usually consisted of people more accustomed to war. Such a Medieval knight for example between major wars often fought in various petite conflicts - quarrels between neighbours, fights between clans, etc. - and even in times of peace they were addicted to duels and tournaments, where they usually fought with sharp weapons even if the purpose was not killing the enemy but only "first blood" or dismounting the enemy from his horse.

There has always been a psychological dufference between elite warriors and conscripts. But elite warriors always existed and if anything, the proportion of conscripts in wars increased in the last few centuries.



And that is why Vietnam repulsed U.S. invasion even without help of the Divine Wind... :mischief:

Have you read the book? Because the book addresses all of this--particularly how there's a class of folks pretty much always down with killing. Funny how for a long time they were the ones willing to duel, and got to ride expensive horses, and dominate in society...
 
What Flying Pig said. It's just a different psychology. Perhaps simply there is more empathy for the fellow soldier than otherwise.

I've always been a bit suspicious of 'Psychology of Killing' report - for one thing, it seems intuitive that some people in society are a bit more squeamish about violence than others, and that a professional military selects those people out while mass conscript armies - like the ones studied in the book - don't. In other words, you get a much better rate of aggression if you simply let soldiers volunteer without changing their training at all. I think spending a long time soldiering would probably have the effect on even a person quite averse to violence of desensitising them to it and turning them into a more 'professional' soldier - hence in part, to my mind, why long wars such as the Thirty Years' War tend to be more brutal than very short ones. Note as well that I don't think the general human reluctance to kill another human translates so well into fighting with edged weapons as it does with long-ranged shooting. What stops people from killing each other with swords and bayonets is fear and nerves, not pacifism.
 
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