Deity Victories: are all victories relevant?

Hello dear fellow players,

I'm playing in deity with my friend in 2vs2vs2.

We are currently wondering if the culture victory is relevant. By that I mean, if we can win by culture we feel that we could have won sooner with another type of victory, like diplomatic or domination. Then is the culture victory still relevant? It could be the same for other types of victory (though I don't have an example right now)

We know we are not experienced as most of you guys, but I have the feeling that not all victories are "equal" in difficulty, or rather some victory types seem useless in deity.

Maybe there are few thing we did not understand well, that's why I'm asking you guys to prove me wrong and to debate on this

Thanks very much

I think they're relevant. But Domination can (under the right circumstances) be achieved quicker, especially in single player. Cultural victories, in order to compete with Domination times, require conquest usually. But that doesn't mean they're irrelevant. The game just isn't perfectly well-balanced.

But maybe MP is different. Your goal is to win *before another player does*, above all else. So whichever winning condition can be achieved first is the only one that matters. Is 2v2v2 like 2 players vs 2 teams of 2 AIs? I've never tried that.

There's a Deity level guide for not only winning all victory conditions for G&K, but as a pure OCC in Single Player.

Summary is science is king: Push that hard; including cash buying science buildings. (I think it also may have called for restarting until you roll a start that's both on a hill and adjoins a mountain.)

For BNW, the main thing to add is to form external trade routes on Diety to take advantage of the AIs starting techs to get a major science boost.

Science, Domination : Both otherwise not affected.

Diplomatic: Just needs a note to push Globalism and convert spies to diplomats along with either using Freedom's tenet that gives free influence via trade routes or autocracy's free influence via having troops stationed near city states.

Culture: The specific wonders may need swapped out for tourism ones along with reference to the standard new cultural victory (play the great work swapping mini-game; cash buy hotel & airport), send a diplomat to those following different ideologies, but is otherwise fine.

Peaceful cultural games are usually the hardest and take the longest, imo.

Cromagnus: We play 2 players vs 2 AI vs 2 AI. We went from immortal in 2 player vs 3 AI vs 3 AI up to 2vs1vs1 in deity and now we are even in 2vs2vs2. It's very interesting as we don't like to challenge ourselves each other directly (thoug we like to compare our outputs, BPT, CPT...)

joncnunn: Those are surely very interesting tips, we will definitely try that, thanks!

So to make the cultural victory relevant, the key is to cash buy buildings? (science and culture)?

All victories are certainly not equal in difficulty and speed.
The easiest victory by far is diplomacy and the toughest cultural.
Domination is usually the quickest and science usually the slowest.

But it all depends on your strategy. A peaceful culture game is probably slower than a peaceful science game on deity.

The different victories offers different challenges though but if you want an easy or quick win, no then culture is a bad choice in both these circumstances.

I am talking from a single player perspective though, but if you have a team of 2 humans vs 2x2 AI the same reasoning is probably true...

If this is just for multiplayer, I don't have any experience, but I've found that culture is slightly easier than dom. victory. The key is to play with one of the culture civs like France, Brazil, or Polynesia. You should also aim for WEs with theming bonuses. Also, plan for winning the world games when you have internet and the ability to rush-buy GMs. It's the culture equivalent of nukes! I think the hardest part is overtaking the culture runaway.

Thorak said:

All victories are certainly not equal in difficulty and speed.
The easiest victory by far is diplomacy and the toughest cultural.
Domination is usually the quickest and science usually the slowest.

But it all depends on your strategy. A peaceful culture game is probably slower than a peaceful science game on deity.

The different victories offers different challenges though but if you want an easy or quick win, no then culture is a bad choice in both these circumstances.

I am talking from a single player perspective though, but if you have a team of 2 humans vs 2x2 AI the same reasoning is probably true...

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my thoughts exactly. I feel really happy when I win CV and not happy at all if my CV had to be turned into SV (almost as bad as losing).

I have a question. Lately I have won Scientific and Domination Victories on Deity, on turn times such as 359, 387 and 372. Are these too late in terms of turn times, or should I just think "a win is a win" ?

It's up to you. If you think it's fun to play to win it's ok, if you think it's fun to compete with others with regards to turn times that's fine as well. Play the way you like, it's a game after all...

A win is a win.

Hello fellow players,

We won that game which was a Deity game in 2 (us two human players) vs 2 AI vs 2 AI vs 2 AI. Archipelago map and we won by diplomacy.

Yet again we faced the choice to win either by diplomacy or science, domination and culture being far too difficult. The easiest choice was diplomacy as science would have delayed our win by approximately 50 turns...

That's a bit sad as we often won by diplomacy even in easier games. I feel i should deactivate this type of victory for a better challenge. Or we could also take less powerful civs.

Anyways the point I wanted to make by posting this is confirm the feeling that victory types against AI seems (as some people seemed to agree) a bit unbalanced.

Cheers

esuna114 said:

I have the feeling that not all victories are "equal" in difficulty, or rather some victory types seem useless in deity.

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I would phrase it as some victory types are more volatile or variable than other victory types. Science victory is easy because it doesn't matter what the other AIs are doing. Just blitz science and stay alive to win. Cultural victory can be hard because sometimes you end up with an AI or two that is generating huge amounts of Culture and you fall short on overtaking them with the late game burst of Great Musicians.
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InDubioProReo said:

I have a question. Lately I have won Scientific and Domination Victories on Deity, on turn times such as 359, 387 and 372. Are these too late in terms of turn times, or should I just think "a win is a win" ?

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A rule of thumb I would recommend is to consider a turn 300 deity victory (standard speed) "par". It is certainly possible to consistently win faster than that but anything slower than 300 risks the AI finishing their victory condition.

Machiavelli24 said:

Cultural victory can be hard because sometimes you end up with an AI or two that is generating huge amounts of Culture and you fall short on overtaking them with the late game burst of Great Musicians.

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There's -always- at least one AI with a ton of culture that you need to overcome. Oftentimes there are two. Once in a while you'll get three, and that's when culture victory becomes unlikely and you need to jump ship to another victory type. Culture's probably the only one that can be that difficult to win with in the wrong situation, though - science is always easy, diplomacy is only annoying if you have to deal with Alexander, and military's always possible (later era units get progressively impossible for the AI to deal with).