Civ Trait Specific Units

Kal-el

Deity
Joined
Nov 6, 2001
Messages
4,827
Location
Washington DC
here's the wind-up:

In my mod I have given all civs the ability to produce the scout – changed to 0/1/2, but I have given the expansionist civs the Ranger Unit, 0/1/1 with treat all tiles as roads. This means that initially the expansionist civs have the advantage, but once there are a lot of roads in place everyone will be better off building scouts.

I was just talking with GIDustin, throwing some ideas around for how to make the Double Your Pleasure Mod even better and I brought up the idea I posted over on that mods thread about Civ Trait Specific Units.

and the pitch:

Here’s my idea, tell me what you think. Just as the expansionsit civs have the ranger what if there were special units available to the other characteristics. Industrious civs could start with workers that move two. (this is equivalent to the laborer unit that is available to all civs with the industrial revolution. Militaristic could have the Brave, a better warrior, possible stats would be 2/2/1. I need to think of something for the other three. The obvious unit for the religious civs is the priest, but what kind of special abilities could it have?

Here are some problems I see with this. I want these units to be useful only in the early stages of the game, to help better distinguish between the different types of civs, and I would like them all to become obsolete around the same time. But if scouts become obsolete once there are roads everywhere and the brave becomes obsolete after you develop longswordsmen (available with feudalism), I guess I would have to change some stats of the Ranger to prolong their usefulness and make the laborer available earlier to balance that out. (possibly with engineering)

any input on this would be greatly appreciated. :D
 
For religious civs, instead of a priest, how about pilgrims as their specific unit. They could be special settler units, with slightly improved stats. like 0/1/1, or 0/0/2, or maybe they are a little cheaper to build, costing only 20 shields.

Also, would civs get specific units for each of their traits then? For example, a Militaristic, Expansionist civ would be able to build Braves and Scouts?

All in all, I think it's a neat idea to include specific units for each civ trait.
 
Ed,

That's what I'm talking about!! I think the Pilgrim is a great idea, I like giving the extra move because then other civs will be able to catch up once they get colonist in the middle ages. If you give the Pilgrim the defensive bonus, 1) they can't be captured, and boy do I love capturing settlers, and 2) the other civs never get an equivalent unit.

yeah, if you were an expansionist militaristic civ you would get both the brave and the ranger. Since everybody has two traits everybody wil be able to build two civ trait units or CTUs
 
I'm glad you like the idea for the pilgrims. Here are a few more for you to ponder:

Commercial = Caravan or Convoy. A 0/0/? unit that can be used to finish improvements and build armies, like a leader, only it can be built instead of having to wait for a leader to pop up as a result of combat. It should cost a lot though, like 500 shields or something like that because it can be used to rush a wonder. I came up with a unit like this for a mod I've been working on (using Dark Sheer's Army Truck unit), mainly because I never seem to get leaders. It's other benefit is that it can be rush built. I always thought it was annoying that I couldn't rush a wonder; this way you can rush the convoy and then use it to rush the wonder.

Scientific = Worker Drone (?) 0/0/? worker that doesn't cost population to build. I know you already have the laborer, so maybe you don't want two different worker special units. Obviously, this would show up in the Modern Era, and should require Aluminum, but otherwise should be cheap to build.

Another possible Scientific unit could be the Hot Air Ballon, available at some point in the Middle Ages. It should only be able to do the recon and rebase missions (or give it a weak bombing ability for that Jules Verne feel), with an operational range of about 3 or so. In the Middle Ages no other civ would be able to intercept it--this could be a fairly powerful unit for that time period. If you wanted to balance things out, you could have non-scientific units acquire the Hot Air Balloon in the early Industrial era (at approximately the Civil War techology level). This way, scientific civs would have a slight advantage by acquiring the Balloon one era before everyone else.

Hope this helps you out some.
 
I like your convoy/caravan idea. I also had that idea, but I was gonna call my unit the architect. Now I have to decide between 3 different names . . .

GIDustin
 
ed,

I like the caravan idea, it would be available to the commercial civs from the start (could use the camel rider from AoE2, or is AoK), then with the discovery of Guilds in the middle ages all civs would be able to build convoys, which would replace the caravan. And finally with motorized tranportation you could have freight units.

I lke the balloon idea, ut it doesn't fit in with the other five. I want to have a unit available to the civ from the get-go to help define their personality and then the other civs would get an equivalent unit early in the middle ages.

keep 'em comin'
 
The scientific trait is a tough one to come up with ideas for, especially in the Ancient era. However, here are two more related ideas for scientific CTUs:

Greek Fire: Basically a primiative cruise missile 0/0/1, with bombardment of 4/1/2 (same bomardment strength as a catapult, but with a higher rate of fire to represent it's ability to burn persistently). Someone has already done a graphic for this unit. The Byzantines possessed the secret of Greek Fire, which helped them to keep neighboring Islamic kingdoms at bay for quite some time.

Actually, come to think of it, maybe it should be an immobile land unit, to represent the fact that it's primary use is defensive--i.e. dropping onto your enemies as they try to scale the walls of your city. You can give it the rebase ability so you can move them around your cities, though the AI probably wouldn't know how to use it this way.

Fire Galley: A galley that shoots jets of flame, similar to the Greek Fire unit. It could have a rating of 2/1/3, or 2/2/3, etc. Again, someone has already done a galley attack .flc with a flamespout, so you could just substitute it for the standard galley attack .flc.

Hope this helps.
 
use a Trebuchet or some other sort of ballistic seige engine for the scientifice people, perhaps give them a few different ones such as a ballista which can load 2/1/2 'arrows' into itself....
 
An advanced siege engine is a good idea for scientific civs, but I think Trebuchets don't start to show up until the Middle Ages, and they were looking for Ancient era units. A ballista is a good idea, but the computer probably wouldn't know to load the bolts into it as there is no land transport AI function yet. Maybe a siege tower, or something like that?
 
That's a three run homer Ed :D

Pilgrim - Religious Settler - moves 2
Caravan - Commercial Rush wonder Unit
Greek Fire - Scientific defensive Unit

to go along with

Peasant - Industrious Laborer - moves 2 (remember their laborers already work faster than everybody elses)
Brave - Better Warrior
Ranger - Better Scout

this will make you rethink which civ you want to be. I like it. Thanks Ed, GIDustin, and Casovi for helping out here.

Of course the book is not closed on this but I think we are on te last few pages. Just need to work out the details.
 
I'll tell you what we need now, are unit graphics for these.

I think the pilgrim should be the priest unit from AoE (i have the bmps, someone just needs to put them together)

The Caravan could be the Camel Rider AoE2 (or was it AoK) I know Dark Sheer started work on this and maybe he could pass on what he has so far. Kinda like an assembly line. :D

The Brave could be a modified version of the scout, put a tomahawk in his right hand and a knife (pointing down) in his left with some war paint. Firaxis already included the pedia icon for this unit.

Greek Fire - already done ( I was thinking to combine the two Greek Fire and Siege Weapon - new catapult attack animation by SpencerH that has the catapult throwing flaming projectiles - this would be great and it would give them a little more punch than just a defensive unit.

the peasant can use the regular worker animation

the ranger is using the scout animation.
 
A caution on the caravan/convoy. Having a unit that is buildable in multiple locations with a high production cost reintroduces the exploit where you have prebuilds for multiple wonders. Also, if the unit can complete builds its cost should be at least equal to the highest cost build.
 
that is true. the problem is that unlike in civ2 where you could get 50 shields for cashing in a caravan in Civ 3 you only get a fraction of the unit cost, so it is useless to have a unit that can only help with regular production. I too am a little leary about having units that can rush build wonders, they would have to cost at least as much as the most expensive wonder, probably more.

any suggestions?
 
There's no real solution at this time unfortunately. In my mod I eventually went for a unit like this and cautioned users against using the exploit. I reasoned that if someone is going to cheat, they're going to cheat - and it doesn't matter if they use something in the mod or out of it. The AI doesn't use the prebuild exploit so as long as the player can resist the urge it works okay.

My big spender unit is the General. This is a unit that can raise an army but itself costs more than an army. The purpose of the unit was to allow armies (and the wonders that come with a successful army) to players not lucky enough to get a leader naturally. Available with Military Tradition.
 
Perhaps give commercial civs some sort of upgraded galley like 0/1/4 and can carry three units?
 
I think you should stick with the caravan/convoy idea. The cost should be equal to the most expensive wonder for the applicable era, with a minimum cost of 300 (because that's what armies cost, if I'm not mistaken), plus 10-20% (or more) for the convenience of being able to build the caravan at your leisure. The cost should be really high, but otherwise I think it's a good idea for a commercial unit.
 
Here are the civilopedia entries for the 6 CTU's. Note the Pilgrim has been renamed the Missionary. I also made the caravan capturable to help offset some of their advantage. So keep them well protected.

#PRTO_Greek_Fire
^
^
^Scientific nations have always been trying to think of newer and nastier ways to destroy their enemies. The development of Greek Fire along with a reliable way to deliver it struck fear in the hearts of their enemies for centuries.
^
^Primitive artillery with a flare, catapults firing [greek fire] are even more devastating siege weapons in than their regular counterparts. They are used to $LINK<bombard=GCON_Combat> city defenses to soften the attack for accompanying soldiers. Catapults have no attack or defense power, so they should be protected by an escort. Finally, they are wheeled so they may not enter $LINK<mountains=TERR_Mountains> or $LINK<jungles=TERR_Jungle> unless following
a road.
#DESC_PRTO_Greek_Fire
^
^Greek Fire is a gelatinous, incendiary mixture, that was used in warfare before gunpowder was invented. Flammable liquids had long been in use, but it was not until the 7th century that Greek fire was invented, possibly by Callinicus, an Egyptian architect who had fled from Syria during the Muslim invasions. The substance apparently ignited spontaneously, and could not be extinguished by water.
^
^The formula of Greek fire was closely guarded as a state secret for many centuries by the Byzantine Empire. The exact composition of Greek fire is still disputed, but it was probably composed of a mixture of flammable materials such as sulfur and pitch in a petroleum base.


#PRTO_Serf
^
^
^{Building a Serf}: A city that builds a [serf] loses one citizen from its population.
^
^{Serf Jobs}: Serfs can $LINK<improve=GCON_Worker_Jobs> the countryside to make it more productive.
The efficiency of a serf (how quickly it works) depends upon its $LINK<government=GCON_Governments> type.
^
^{Joining a City}: A serf may also be used to increase the population of an existing city;
when the serf is active on a city, click the "Join City" button. The serf disappears and
the city's population gains one citizen.
^
^Note that serfs may be captured and used by rival civilizations.
#DESC_PRTO_Serf
^
^
^In primitive, hunter-gatherer cultures, there was no division of labor. But every civilization since has had a
worker "class," devoted to the production of goods and the unskilled tasks necessary for the maintenance of society. These agricultural laborers were known as serfs and were legally bound to reside and labor on the land owned by their lord. The word serf comes from the Latin word servus, which means servant or slave. The serfs comprised the vast majority of the population of early society and worked to feed themselves, their superiors, and the people of the towns and the church. Although the serfs were not slaves, they were not really free. They could not leave the land owned by their lord. They were obligated to provide physical labor as well as to pay taxes and other obligations. Serfs were at the bottom of the European system of social, political, and economic relations.
^
^Social institutions similar to serfdom were known in ancient times. The status of the helots in the ancient Greek city-state of Sparta resembled that of the medieval serfs, as did the condition of the peasants working on government lands in ancient Rome. These Roman peasants, known as colini, or "tenant farmers," are some of the possible precursors of the serfs. However, medieval serfdom really began with the breakup of the Carolingian Empire around the 10th century AD. The demise of this empire, which had ruled much of the western Europe for more than 200 years, was followed by a long period during which no strong central governments existed in most of Europe.


#PRTO_Missionary
^
^
^Religious civilizations don't create normal settlers like other civs. Instead they produce [missionaries]. Missionaries wander the countryside searching for suitable places to build new missions and spread the good word of their religion. Unlike other settlers, pilgrims can move 2 tiles per turn in their religious zeal.
^
^{Building a Missionary}: A city that builds a missionary loses two citizens from its population.
^
^{Founding Cities}: Missionaries are used primarily to found new cities. Move the missionaries to
the desired city site, and, when the missionary is active in that square, press B.
^
^{Joining a City}: A missionary may also be used to increase the population of an existing city; when the
missionary is active on a city, click the "Join City" button. The missionary disappears and the city's population gains two citizens.
#DESC_PRTO_Missionary
^
^
^When citizens were filled with the desire to witness by word and deed, at home and abroad, to the beliefs of their religion, so that others may come to know and live the truth as they understand it, they formed a missionary movement and left their homes in search of souls to teach. Once a suitable site was found, the missionaries would build their new church and homes, develop the land surrounding the the mission and teach their religion to the indiginous peoples that they found there. Eventually the whole process repeated, and the new mission would send out missionaries of its own. This process allowed civilizations and religions to spread throughout history, from the empires of the ancient world to the discovery and settlement of the New World.


#PRTO_Brave
^
^
^Militaristic civilizations are able to produce better warriors than other nations.
^
^The [brave] is a dangerous opponent, armed with axe and knife and the blessing of his spirit totem.
#DESC_PRTO_Warrior
^
^
^The earliest military forces were simply the citizens of the city, armed with whatever implements they could
use as weapons. In many ancient societies the young men were forced to learn the art of war. They were trained from their youth in the tools of warfare and forced to pass through rights of initiation to prove their manhood. If they survived the ordeal they were welcomed into the community and for their bravery and courage they were honored as braves. These young men were far superior to the common warrior and were often able to take on forces twice their numbers.


#PRTO_Ranger
^
^
^[Ranger] are unarmed, non-combat units that can move three squares per turn over land, regardless of terrain.
This makes them very adept at exploring the wilderness.
#DESC_PRTO_Ranger
^
^
^Throughout history there are those hearty souls who thirst for adventure and long for the freedom of the great outdoors. These men and women leave the confines of the cities and become one with with wilderness. They are more comfortable in the forest than they are in the towns and cities of civilized society. These rangers, those who live on the range, are perfect scouts and explorers, and spend most of their time looking for the next frontier.


#PRTO_Caravan
^
^
^Commercial civilizations developed and relied on trade to spread their influence. One of the key tools in their trade empires was the Caravan. Once a city builds a caravan it can send it off to distant cities to help $LINK<hurry=GCON_Hurry_Production> production in a city. When the caravan does this it disappears.
^
^Note that caravans may be captured and used by rival civilizations. They should always be well guarded.
#DESC_PRTO_Caravan
^
^
^Trade has been a major source of income to civilizations throughout history. Journeying to distant lands, caravans exchanged their loads of goods for money or other items of value. In addition, the traders who accompanied the caravans often brought back new knowledge about the advances made by the civilizations with whom they did business. Marco Polo, for example, went with traders to China. He remained there for many years, and brought back much valuable information to the West.
 
I like what you've written. Changing pilgrims to missionaries is probably more appropriate too, as pilgrims don't always found new settlements but missionaries often do. How soon until these are implemented in your mod?
 
Top Bottom