Is 4 big cities always tall

Is 4 big cities always concidered tall, regardless how big the map is?

Yes.

Of course, if you are playing a Duel map with 5 AI civs, it's both tall and wide (twide?), for that specific map set-up.

Vocabulary matters less than what it means for game play. Tall implies focus on greater population growth, with (usually) Tradition and running lots of specialists.

In theory you could have 4 cities that are all tiny with no plans to grow; in which case it would be neither tall nor wide.
But such a tactic is bound to lose the game.

Well all games start out that way. Generally have room/time for 3-5 cities. From there:

Tall = Use excess happiness to keep growing taller

Wide = Use excess happiness to settle additional cities or hold onto conquered cities

So yes, if you only have four cities and keep growing, that is still tall.

For me, Tall becomes Wide as soon as I start capping growth and skipping buildings in cities. Generally with a 4 city Tradition start you don't ever do that with those first 4. I suppose you could and play what I call 'Wide' but as said already, that's a losing strategy.

Matthew. said:

Well all games start out that way. Generally have room/time for 3-5 cities. From there:

Tall = Use excess happiness to keep growing taller

Wide = Use excess happiness to settle additional cities or hold onto conquered cities

Click to expand...

This is easily the most accurate and concise definition of tall vs. wide I have ever seen.

What I mean is, will the penalties (unhappiness, culture and science) for new cities be the same on a huge map and on a duel map?

It much depends on the situation. If you are playing with India founding more than 4 cities is obviously a bad choice. The strategy you choose, the civilization and the map you play have an important role in the number of cities you should found. In huge maps, if you aren't going for a cultural victory, having lots of cities is a better choice than having a small, focused and especialized empire.

Matthew. said:

Tall = Use excess happiness to keep growing taller
Wide = Use excess happiness to settle additional cities or hold onto conquered cities

Click to expand...

A little too simplistic. For one thing, there's no such thing as "excess happiness." It's simply a temporary situation. Or, you may be using happiness to grow culture.

But regardless, to your point. For one thing, after a point, wide is foolish to keep spamming cities (like the AI does). Depending on the map, there are going to be a number of good city spots (and a large number of crappy spots). Also, wide need to grow tall too (not as tall as Tall, but yes), and needs to "save" happiness for that. If you keep most of your cities size 3-4 then you're probably doing it wrong. Lastly, depending on your strategy, you may want to stop growing your wide empire (so that you can pursue your chosen victory type). Unless you're going for Domination or whatever, you need to stop at some point.

There is a modifier for the effects of unhappiness on large? and then Huge maps.

I believe you receive 80% of the unhappiness on Large Maps, and 60% on Huge maps.

check here for more information http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Happiness_(Civ5)

That only applies to the unhappiness from the city itself. Has nothing to do with unhappiness from population/specialists.

Browd said:

Yes.

Of course, if you are playing a Duel map with 5 AI civs, it's both tall and wide (twide?), for that specific map set-up.

Vocabulary matters less than what it means for game play. Tall implies focus on greater population growth, with (usually) Tradition and running lots of specialists.

Click to expand...

He says "usually" because sometimes, you can safely go semi-tall with Liberty when all the room runs out while building up an army to clear out a rival, or to build important national wonders before settling a new city, and it even works if you settled good land. Still, as Liberty, you should get at least 4 cities, but I've made it work with 3 before (but at that point, definitely consider a war).

This discussion came up somewhere, but since Civ5 discussion is always along the tall/wide axis with no intermediate stage, my view is 4 = tall. Based entirely on the bonuses available from Tradition.