Europa Europa: European Empires Mod

mello-j said:

Havent downloaded v 2.0 yet, but scanning over it I see that Poland is no longer listed in the Civs list. Is this a typo? (I certainly hope so!!!!) Teutonic Order I can understand, as that part of the world was crowded on the map, but Poland too? I think I may weep.....

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pooks said:

Why whats replacing Poland?
austria is gonna control all of easern europe??

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Oopss... Don't worry, Poland and Teutonic Order are still in. I fixed the first post. Note, though, the Teutonic Order will now have to fight pagan Lithuanians and other Minor civs to expand.

woodelf said:

- I built well over 50% of the Wonders. Having marble nearby certainly helped, but Rome is located in a super spot, maybe too super?
- So far there have been no wars. None that I've noticed. Not good. Maybe the AI needs more aggressiveness.
- Having the barb civs is a great way to gain an extra city. Nice. Zurich, however, can't expand past pop 1 so you can't capture it. I waited until 1000AD just to see and it never gained pop. Can you set it to 2 at the beginning?
- Can you set Galleys to movement 3? I will in my version since I hate taking so long to get anywhere.

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Thanks for the feedback... yeah, maybe Rome should be toned down. Once I figure out what all the variables in the leadertraits file mean, I'll make every leader more aggressive. I set the mod to Aggressive AI, but I guess that doesn't do much. I'll let Zurich grow more though resources around it. I wanted to add movement to all boats, so that'll be in the future, too. Thanks for the suggestions!

NickSD said:

Fantastic mod!!!! Will you allow other modders to use the religion buttons etc?

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I didn't do the origional art, so I don't care . Though, if you use the religion system, specialists system, or civics system I created please use it with proper credits.

Caldorn said:

I don't know where you plan to take this mod for the next version(s)...

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You're very perceptive in your post! My main goal is a mod starting in the Dark Ages and that probably won't go past the mid-19th Century. You note correctly that I'm an EU2 (and Victoria and Crusader Kings) fan. I wish Civ4 would have gone more in those directions - it didn't, but I will.

Ultimately, I hope to produce a mod system that will allow multiple scenarios for the same mod. Since there's an 18 civ limit, each scenario will have differet civs... but this is far in the future...

I'd love to hear your tech tree ideas for this era (about 1000 AD - about 1850 AD).

If you want to do an Ancient Age - Middle Ages version of this mod, feel free to use my work, with credit, of course .

Thanks for your input and compliments everyone. Great feedback will help make a great mod. I hope you all enjoy my work!

Hi!

It all looks VERY much promising!

I checked v2.0 in the WBuilder, and I have a few questions, though:

- The Carpathian Basin:

Could the Danube be redrawn? It should perhaps be more to the east and one tile longer going south directly - you should give more space to the Transdanubian region (the area that was once Pannonia for the Romans).
Also, I miss Lake Balaton there (biggest lake in Europe!).

As of rivers, I think there should be enough place for the river Tisza, also
- check maps of real geography...
I see the rivers for Poland and Teutons are dense... so Tisza has the right to be on the map

- Flag colors

Poland and the Ottomans/Turks both have this red color. I understand, but aren't they too similar?

- Small nations

I love the idea!

But:

Will not that be too many of them in the Balkan?

I would put one barbar city in the Eastern Carpathians,
to represent today's Ukraine more, or Hungary
- to stop Austria or Poland expanding there East too much.

- Teutons - Poland clash

Do we need these Teutons? They are exotic and all but not a real country
and I think they take away Polish land.
Poland should get today's Poland and Czech/Slovakia - how do you think?

BTW: will not Poland go down and capture today's Hungary in this 2.0?

- - -

These are my first impression, said after looking at the map only...

I believe this is already GREAT, and will even be better

@V.Soma-

Yes, maybe Teutonic Order should just be removed altogether then? I'm not good with maps, so I haven't touched Arne's origional at all. I wanted lots of barbs in the Balkans to give Teutonic Order lots to conquer... maybe a few should be removed? I'll wait and see what other people say. Thanks for the feedback

The Danube:

From Vienna it could go 6 tiles straight East,
then turn South and go her 3+2 tiles, and then on...

Lake Balaton could be the 4th tile diagonal SE of Vienna,
2 tiles west of the good hut.
Also the hill that is now 2 tiles North to the "lake"
could be moved 1 "down" to the "shore",
and instead of it I suggest a plains tile

double post - sorry...

well, I love maps
- hm, may I give my contribution and do some arrangements of the map?

I would actually like to see this mod combined with Lehawk's Europe map since his includes North Africa and the Near East. That way Islam and the Ottoman Empire can properly represented.

Especially when you make the Dark Ages-Industrial age scerino, for during most of that time Europe was under constant threat from the Islamic world, which was generally more advanced until the 17th century.

Any chance you could alter either the Teutonic Order or Germany's color? They are very similar as well.

MrThing - I'd personally like to see this mod left as is, but with the modifications and such AG has done there's no reason you couldn't create other scenarios using other maps, different time frames, and more civs.

Played again, this time as the Teutons. Peter eventually did attack me about 900AD since we shared a border and have different religions. Poland followed that up 5 or so turns later. I love the Civ4 combat system!

On a wierd side note; even though over 1/2 the civs are Catholic and those are all pleased with me no one will declare war on Peter or Poland because they "simply don't like me enough". I have techs to trade, resources to give, but no one even gives me a chance to buy their support. Attitudes definitely need some tweaking, at least a little.

AG - Since you obviously love EU/EU2 is there any chance you'd incorporate the Mod out there that records the logs of what happens. The AARs in EU were the best part of playing and this has that same feel of wanting to remember what you did and retell it.

Fantastic job so far.

First: great job! Its just what I was looking for: a good europe-game!

Second: What about the byzantines? I think they are one of the most important empires in the european middle ages. If its just because of the starting location, then you could place them in greece, because the byzantine culture was influenced by the greek and greece was also part of the byzantine empire.

woodelf said:

Attitudes definitely need some tweaking, at least a little...

AG - Since you obviously love EU/EU2 is there any chance you'd incorporate the Mod out there that records the logs of what happens...

Fantastic job so far.

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Thanks for the support woodelf. I haven't touched AI attitudes at all, they're default... the only thing I put in was the "Aggressive AI" option. But I'll take a look at attitudes.

As for the Log Mod, I haven't looked at it yet... I may include it as you suggest.

Saulot said:

First: great job! Its just what I was looking for: a good europe-game!

Second: What about the byzantines?

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Thanks for the support. Because CIV 4 is so well designed, I have to keep the number of civs low to prevent CTD . Thus, the line has to be drawn somewhere on who to cut and who to keep in... stay tuned for later scenarios with them in, though.

V.Soma said:

The Danube:
From Vienna it could go 6 tiles straight East,
then turn South and go her 3+2 tiles, and then on...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input... I've redrawn the Danube and some other rivers (drawing rivers is a pain in WorldBuilder) for the next version.

ArbitraryGuy said:

Thanks for the support. Because CIV 4 is so well designed, I have to keep the number of civs low to prevent CTD .

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LOL!

Anyways, I have a few comments on todays playexperience. I vastly enjoy this scenario, and I must say that I loved the new civics and specialists, AG. I did get a bit confused by some of the wonders though, since some of them produced some entirely different GP than what I was used to. (E.g. Notre Dame no longer producing a Great Artist type of GP, but now producing a Great Theologist aka Great Prophet) You might want to include some note about that in your scenario description, as I was totally unprepared for it, and by the time I noticed it, it was already too late.

I did, once again, play as the Italians. Around year 0, I was in a good lead on the other civilizations, and had spread catholism to all my neighbors. I controlled all of italy, and had a few cities down the baltic coastline, and also conquered Tirana and Athens. No wars yet, which suited me fine, since I am generally content and happy about plodding along building up my empire, and winning through a cultural victory - not that the occasional war bothers me of course, as long as I am certain I win. I am a firm believer in the ancient adage that only a fool fights a war he cannot win. (And I dare anyone call me a peacemonger just because I don't ... ah, nevermind)

What I noticed the most at this point was that the Ottoman Empire had barely expanded at all - and the same thing had happened to Spain - something that had to be investigated. Sure, I had discovered the barbarian settlements in their general vicinity some thousand years earlier when I scouted the land, but little did I suspect that they would be completely unable to fend these buggers off, and that their threat would escalate that badly. All of the barbarian settlements around Spain were still very much in existence - and the same with the barbarian settlements in the Carpathian areas. It would appear that the barbarians have continuously raided the Ottoman and Spanic lands, since the very beginning of the scenario, thus seriously hampering their competitiveness compared to the other civilizations.

At the point where I had to leave the game behind, to pursue other ventures in the scary thing known as real life(tm), the highest scored AI was Peter, at around 1200 points, whereas Isabella and Suleiman had around 600 points each, at the rock bottom of the ladder. Gustav had never managed to conquer Oslo, and thus was also fairly far down on the scoreladder, and had obviously fought about premium land in the baltic area with both Peter and Von Salza, who were both ranked at a strong 2nd and 3rd place on the scoreladder.

I'll start a new game tomorrow, and keep an eye out for the same behaviour then. Especially Suleiman should probably be given some "boost", considering the fact that the islamic region was - as previously stated in this thread - a major threat to Europe during the prime game time era you target with this mod. As it was in my game, I could've easily squashed him like a bug - I even found myself taking pity on him, giving him a few techs and some resources for free, just to see if he could get a small amount of dignity back .. but to no avail.

That concludes my essay for now

Oh, and just as a point of some humor - the latter game, after you released v.2 was the first game I played where islam was not founded by Victoria. She seemed to love being a moslem in v.1 on my 'puter

ArbitraryGuy said:

@V.Soma-

Yes, maybe Teutonic Order should just be removed altogether then?

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It seems I cannot resist ...

I would agree with the point of removing the Teutons, and rather make the Teutonic Knights (since they are way cool!) as the UU for Germany or Prussia (if you ever add UU's that is). Mayhaps add the Almohad civilization in North Africa (even though it's outside the real scenario area), or Prussia - if you want a civ in the area where you now have the Teutons. Other suggestions I can think of right now, that could fit in would be Ukraine, Hungary or Novgorod.

@Caledron

Thanks for the feedback. Ouch! I'm suprised that the AI can't deal with the barbarian cities... guess I'll have to nerf them.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Make sure to get the v2.5 patch. Just replace the current /PublicMaps/EuropaEuropa.WBS file with the one in the 2.5 zip on the front page. This updated scenario file removes Teutonic Order and Removes most of the Barbarians in that the AI couldn't handle... hehehe... stupid AI can't even beat itself...

Thanks.

Oh, I thought the Danube would be fixed for 2.5
But then in the next version?

I'm SOO playing this next!

I noticed Sulieman having troubles as well, but I love the fact that the barb cities were a bit harder to take. How did you nerf them AG? By not putting them on hills? It must have taken me 20 turns to take Athens once and then I lost it the next turn! Fun stuff.

Any plans to replace the Teutons, or are 10 civs enough? It was crowded there, but now Poland and Russia might get very, very large. Or they might not the way Civ4 cripples overexpansion. Time will tell.