Vokarya's Workshop: Units

oldnooob said:
ARRRGGGHHH!!!
Would someone please link me to the Information / documentation / Whatever to sea ZOC.

I want to try to understand WHY the AI can successfully attack my stack but I am not allowed to attack their stack with surface ships.
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It works as standard ZOC: when you are on a square under ZOC, you can either move away to a square under no ZOC OR you can attack the ZOC source. You can't move from one tile under ZOC to another under ZOC. Unless there's something wrong with the code, it's as simple as that.

Edit: if it doesn't work, please post a screenshot or a save.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13566421 said:
It works as standard ZOC: when you are on a square under ZOC, you can either move away to a square under no ZOC OR you can attack the ZOC source. You can't move from one tile under ZOC to another under ZOC. Unless there's something wrong with the code, it's as simple as that.
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So if I am adjacent to 2 units that have a ZOC (that are also adjacent to each other) I cannot attack either?
 
Samson said:
So if I am adjacent to 2 units that have a ZOC (that are also adjacent to each other) I cannot attack either?
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Since ZOC has radius 1, you should be able to always attack one of them, although I've never tried. I guess setting up this kind of situation with worldbuilder should be easy enough.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13566437 said:
Since ZOC has radius 1, you should be able to always attack one of them, although I've never tried. I guess setting up this kind of situation with worldbuilder should be easy enough.
Click to expand...

I gave it a try, but I cannot get any ZOC to work. I am using rev844, and stealth destroyers do not seem to have ZOC (not in the civopeadia, not when I worldbuilder them in). I then give the enemy 2 great generals, give each of them strategic command, and I can still move up and down next to the 2 stacks. So sorry, I failed at the first hurdle. Thanks for answering anyway, I cannot imagine it would be something that comes up much.
 
I don't really like the idea of Zone of Control period, but I can see where it has its uses...

Can't really tell if the barriers I've put up ever seem to work, but it's been so long since I last used the naval ZoC promotion I can't even remember. The AI seemingly ignored my ZoC's and pillaged my nets anyway, but I could be remembering wrong (Could also be my bias against the ZoC clouding my memory heh)
 
Randomness said:
Is there currently a graphical indication for ZOC? If not, there really should be.
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There is a message on the hover information that explains Zone of Control if it prevents movement.

Rezca said:
I don't really like the idea of Zone of Control period, but I can see where it has its uses...

Can't really tell if the barriers I've put up ever seem to work, but it's been so long since I last used the naval ZoC promotion I can't even remember. The AI seemingly ignored my ZoC's and pillaged my nets anyway, but I could be remembering wrong (Could also be my bias against the ZoC clouding my memory heh)
Click to expand...

It might be possible to create a red glow for the Zone of Control radius (much like the settlers blue glow). I will look into it.
 
I was looking at the numbers of various things (buildings, units, civics, etc.) enabled at each era, and I noticed that the Transhuman Era has a LOT of land units. The other eras all have between 11-18 new land units each, while the Transhuman Era has 29. I think a few could stand to be cut and a few more rearranged into unit lines; a lot of the Transhuman Era units seem to stand alone. Does anyone have a problem with this? I'll go into some detail as to what is getting modified and where.
 
I don't think this will be a problem, no. What's the usual vanilla count per era?
 
Sounds very good to me, I've always thought that medieval era goes by too fast and you can reach renaissance skipping some fundamental techs

Mmm, sorry, wrong thread. I'm OK with reworking Transhuman and also with adding that medieval tech in the other thread.
 
Arakhor said:
I don't think this will be a problem, no. What's the usual vanilla count per era?
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I just checked BTS; it's 4-7 land units per era. As I said, ours is 11-18 new land units each era, but some of those are obsolete before the end of their era. The viable count at the end of each era ranges from 7 to 13.
 
I've started to look at the Transhuman Era unit roster. This is a summary of the changes I am looking to make. I'll go into some more detail on why I want to make these changes and what changes I don't want to make. If we come up with anything more to change, I'll take a look.
  • Eliminate the Antipersonnel Mech, EMP SAM Infantry, and Walker Mech units.
  • Consolidate the Assault Mech and Robot unit categories and remove the Clone category.
  • Retool ACV into an upgrade of Mechanized Infantry. Mech Inf can upgrade to ACV or ACV SAM.
  • Power Armored Infantry upgrades to Scout Mech or Assault Mech.
  • Rover upgrades to Scout Mech. Scout Mech becomes the capstone recon-type unit and light attack infantry.
  • Walker Droid upgrades to Assault Droid and then to Assault Mech.
  • NLOS Cannon upgrades to Siege Droid. This makes Siege Droid the final siege unit, although most tanks and mechs have some bombarding capability.
 
There are only two things I don't really like.

Rover to Scout Mech
I think the scout mech is a scout only in its name but not in its purpose. It is rather the fastest (and weakest) among mechs. I don't know if it really has it's place in the game or not, but as an upgrade of the rover I rather would like to see some hovercraft. Something that is fast and has no terrain difficulties - unlike a walker which would sink in the swamp quicker than the rover. Something that can easily run through swamp and hills and coastal and urban terrain aswell.
If you want one more upgrade for the scout line I would suggest the 'W40k marines on the speeder' model, if you remember. It was in the Mars, now! mod iirc.

My other concern is:
Walker Droid upgrades to Assault Droid and then to Assault Mech.
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Theoreticly it is a great step back to upgrade an unmanned AI controled unit to one that needs a pilot again. IMO it's like upgrading a tank to an elephant. Combining the mech and droid lines is okay but only as long as the mech upgrades to the droid and not vice versa.

With the rest of the changes I think I agree.
 
I think that while droids and mechs are theoretically different, the game mechanics don't make enough in-practice difference to draw a line between human-piloted/robot-piloted mechs. For example, one can build Walker Droid without Artificial Intelligence, so to me that implies the Droid has very simplistic AI routines plus remote-control capability. The Assault Mech could even be robot-controlled, and is simply more advanced enough to get the Mech name. Furthermore, I don't think most players would build Assault Droids once Assault Mechs became available (AM is much more expensive but also more powerful) and I don't think units should get left behind, so Assault Droid needs to upgrade to something and Assault Mech is the best choice.
 
I want to keep the Scout Mech as the lighter of the two end-game mechs (the Assault Mech is the heavy). It doesn't need to keep the Scout Mech name. What I was thinking was, by merging the Rover into the Scout Mech, to keep the number of available unit lines down, especially since the Transhuman Era adds three entire unit lines (Automatons-Cyborg, Genetic Soldier-Super Soldier, and Nanite Swarm-Nanite Cloud; I think of them as the "freaks" because there's no way they can start from existing lines but are just too appropriate to the Transhuman Era to give up) plus two stand-alone units that I'm not completely sure what to do with (Hi-Tech Robot and Sentinel).
 
Vokarya said:
I think that while droids and mechs are theoretically different, the game mechanics don't make enough in-practice difference to draw a line between human-piloted/robot-piloted mechs...
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I found the trans-human era almost... cluttered, in terms of the units. Perhaps there was initially some justification for the different categories of units, but in my view, considerable simplification would be beneficial (e.g. but not limited to the aforementioned combining of assault mech' and robot categories).

I haven't made it to the trans-human era for few revisions now, but previously I noticed e.g. a Walker Mech is not an Assault Mech but a High-Tech unit despite it's name. Whatever "High-Tech" is supposed to mean I don't know - aren't all of those trans-human units 'high-tech'?

Is there some consistent thematic difference between future-era unit categories? E.g. droids cost more shields to build but have less support (on-going gold cost) than mech's? I guess I'd like to see some reason for there being different categories. I agree that whether any particular science-fiction military unit is piloted by a human or not is, in CivIV, pretty much irrelevant.

Cheers, A.
 
aggri1 said:
I found the trans-human era almost... cluttered, in terms of the units. Perhaps there was initially some justification for the different categories of units, but in my view, considerable simplification would be beneficial (e.g. but not limited to the aforementioned combining of assault mech' and robot categories).

I haven't made it to the trans-human era for few revisions now, but previously I noticed e.g. a Walker Mech is not an Assault Mech but a High-Tech unit despite it's name. Whatever "High-Tech" is supposed to mean I don't know - aren't all of those trans-human units 'high-tech'?

Is there some consistent thematic difference between future-era unit categories? E.g. droids cost more shields to build but have less support (on-going gold cost) than mech's? I guess I'd like to see some reason for there being different categories. I agree that whether any particular science-fiction military unit is piloted by a human or not is, in CivIV, pretty much irrelevant.

Cheers, A.
Click to expand...

I agree with you; many Transhuman categories don't seem to make much sense. I can understand having a category for super-science units that don't fit into the current categories, probably something along the lines of the Hi-Tech category, but with a better name. Categories do cover how certain buildings and other units interact with a given unit, and what promotions are available, so we do have to be a little careful, but I don't think it would be a bad thing to streamline the classes.
 
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