Where are my Carthaginian harbours?

Z

Zoidberg_esq

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
25
In BNW they haven't been showing up, visually (it's not that they aren't showing up and existing as normal, in the city view). Come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure if they ever were showing up, as normal harbours do, attached (graphically) to the city on the world view.

Is this a pretty easy thing for someone to fix, or for someone to tell me how to fix?

Does this presumably happen to everyone trying to recreate the glory of Carthage.. ?
 
Zoidberg_esq said:
In BNW they haven't been showing up, visually (it's not that they aren't showing up and existing as normal, in the city view). Come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure if they ever were showing up, as normal harbours do, attached (graphically) to the city on the world view.

Is this a pretty easy thing for someone to fix, or for someone to tell me how to fix?

Does this presumably happen to everyone trying to recreate the glory of Carthage.. ?
Click to expand...

I've never had my harbours show up, even in GnK :( It is sad, I wanted to see them on the map, and not those empty coasts
 
My sentiments exactly.

Any ideas on how to make that happen? Surely someone could make a mod for that or something?
 
Yeah I was quite disappointed when I loaded up a game with Carthage to see if they had fixed this problem and found that they hadn't. It kinds of kills the mood of playing this ancient maritime superpower when you're the only civ who doesn't have visible harbours. Shame because Carthage is definitely one of the best civs, owing in large part to their free harbours.
 
It would seem to be a simple fix to match the already existing harbor graphic with the free harbor that Carthage receives upon founding a coastal city. I am not a programmer, but this would seem to be the easiest of fixes and afford everyone a more immersible experience when playing Carthage. A mod or patch anyone?!
 
Bad Wolf said:
Shame because Carthage is definitely one of the best civs, owing in large part to their free harbours.
Click to expand...
Huh? They have two worthless unique units and their trait is greatly weakened now that Harbors don't add production anymore and instead just boost sea trade, plus have lower maintenance (meaning Carthage is saving less comparatively). Carthage is downright terrible.


TRex56 said:
It would seem to be a simple fix to match the already existing harbor graphic with the free harbor that Carthage receives upon founding a coastal city. I am not a programmer, but this would seem to be the easiest of fixes and afford everyone a more immersible experience when playing Carthage. A mod or patch anyone?!
Click to expand...
The Harbor Carthage receives is a normal Harbor. When a free building is granted, it's totally the same building as before, just with all maintenance removed. The thing still is the same in the XML files, it's just that free buildings are treated that way by the engine.

My guess would be that this has something to do with the glitch where finishing a World Wonder in a single turn with a Great Engineer makes it never appear visually. Even though you can buy Harbors and still see them, it seems that buildings that have an appearance won't ever show when given for free by stuff.
 
KevinJK said:
Huh? They have two worthless unique units and their trait is greatly weakened now that Harbors don't add production anymore and instead just boost sea trade, plus have lower maintenance (meaning Carthage is saving less comparatively). Carthage is downright terrible.
Click to expand...

Just boosting sea trade would be enough on its own, given how lucrative sea routes are, and the extra range given by the harbour means Carthage can have an insane amount of gold flooding in from the early game. Add to this the immediate gold boost every time a new city is founded from the city connections (which are also maintenance free). With an expansionist maritime trade focused approach, Carthage is really superb.
 
Colin said:
Just boosting sea trade would be enough on its own, given how lucrative sea routes are, and the extra range given by the harbour means Carthage can have an insane amount of gold flooding in from the early game. Add to this the immediate gold boost every time a new city is founded from the city connections (which are also maintenance free). With an expansionist maritime trade focused approach, Carthage is really superb.
Click to expand...

Given the number of routes you have available before unlocking the Harbor anyway, Carthage is only looking at an extra 2-4 gold per turn. That's really nothing impressive, and certainly not nearly as good as having extra production at the start of the game like the Harbor used to give them. That was pretty nice.

Their units are both still worthless though, which is a real shame.
 
KevinJK said:
Given the number of routes you have available before unlocking the Harbor anyway, Carthage is only looking at an extra 2-4 gold per turn. That's really nothing impressive, and certainly not nearly as good as having extra production at the start of the game like the Harbor used to give them. That was pretty nice.

Their units are both still worthless though, which is a real shame.
Click to expand...

The strength of the harbour is not necessarily in the small boost to trade income (which is nice but hardly critical) but rather in the increased range which can net you a much more lucrative route. In my current game in the classical age I have 2 routes going with another city right at the limit of my trade range for 25+ gold each. The next best potential route is for around 15 gold which I would be stuck with if I didn't have the harbours.

Also remember all those extra turns of (maintenance free) city connection gold which you get from not having to build harbours. As Carthage you never have to worry about gold, whereas others, especially early on can struggle. The most that could be said is that Carthage is slightly less powerful in BNW (though I think production power has been exchanged for financial power in a fair trade) but certainly not "downright terrible"
 
And I am not convinced the UUs are worthless. I might give you Quinqueremes as a blah unit but I personally love them; strong, cheap units that don't get upgraded till Caravels, great at smashing cities with a city raider bonus (yay money). African forest elephants however I love! Stronger in strength and the demoralization thingie 4 of these suckers running around in enemy territory are like honey badgers early game, they just don't give a *** what you throw at them (even spearmen), also great generals lol (which upgrade with the unit) Honestly -the- only early game mounted unit I build.
 
This seems to have become more about the relative merits of Carthage as a civilization, in civ, than about their lack of graphically displayed harbours. Though it would obviously be lovely to just sit here, discussing the worth of african forest elephants and quinqueremes, there is a serious issue at stake.

I'd like to echo the words of the guy who said it would surely be pretty easy to fix: it surely would. Certainly as far as effect for amount of (programming) input goes.

Furthermore, it should probably be a cothon, and graphically represented as such, but that's admittedly above and beyond the base requirement of there just being a harbour displayed there in the first place.
 
How do I get in contact with patch-makers, to let them know of issues (bugs, pretty much) - anybody know?
 
Bug report forum? Also, if it is related to the wonder graphic update/farm crash bug, I'm guess that one must be a pain to fix for some reason. It's been around a long time. Try the worldbuilder mod. IIRC it lets you do all the stuff the cheat console in civ4 did. So you could found a city, open the cheat menu, remove the free harbor, and add a new one. I don't think it can edit maintenance, but if it means that much to you...
 
Don't forget about Carthage's unique ability to suicide their army in the mountains! (seriously why is it 50/turn, make it 20-25 and it would be pretty good)
 
I think it is intended as a tool for cavalry, the whole elephants over the Alps thing. It forces your opponent to be more cautious around mountains, which are usually surrounded by rough terrain anyway, further slowing his advance. If he isn't, "...an elephant popped out!" It can also give you a shortcut. I have never played as Carthage, but even if mountains use up all remaining movement, you could still conceivably cross a mountain range and heal up faster than going the long way.

IRL, all but one of Hannibal's elephants died in the Alps, so be thankful its only 50 hp per turn.
 
I'm playing a game with Carthage right now and I'm finding them to be extemely awesome. I'm playing on small continents and mostly limiting my warmongering to coastal cities. Between meritocracy and the exploration policy that gives happiness for lighthouses, harbors, and seaports conquering a coastal city guarontees you'll get at least two happiness right off the bat, plus the extra income from the capital connection.

I've got all my traderoutes dedicated to production bonus on the main cities and I'm keeping up economically with all the other civs utilizing trade routes for income.

The other bonus is that the mountain crossing is much more helpful than I had anticipated. I was expecting that entering mountain tiles would be like entering hilly terrain (2 MP) but it is actually like going through grassland (1MP). I find myself using mountains to go around forests and hills. It also helped in siege of Venice which was basically founded as a mountain fortress.

I would certainly give Carthage the thumbs up when played as an expansive maritime empire.
 
to make carthage's harbors show up graphically, simply use the in game editor mod to select and place them (interestingly, ige shows them as not there until you do this, despite the fact that the game itself says they're there).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

pineappledan
  • Locked
(7-25) Carthage UA/UNW Reworks
2 3 4
Replies
73
Views
3K
Recursive
Recursive
jarcast2
Fix for bugged River City Connection trait
Replies
19
Views
598
Rekk
Rekk
The_J
Old World update #120
Replies
8
Views
1K
The_J
The_J
Rekk
  • Locked
(7-25a) Carthage Gets More Trade Routes
2 3
Replies
58
Views
1K
Recursive
Recursive
O
Download Version - here - updated 01-28-2024 - Version 3
Replies
0
Views
838
onkelm
O
Top Bottom