best UB for OCC poll

with deference to Jaaboo:

edit: [Superconductors] Russian Research Institute: +12 and +6 should read:

[Superconductors] Russian Research Institute: +12 and +6

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here's a link to buildings.

A rather incomplete poll. What about the stock exchange for England? Since it comes with Redcoats as well? Ball court for for a Rep SE since resources may be scarce. Totem pole to survive the early game with no metal/horses in your culture.

CivCorpse said:

A rather incomplete poll. What about the stock exchange for England? Since it comes with Redcoats as well? Ball court for for a Rep SE since resources may be scarce. Totem pole to survive the early game with no metal/horses in your culture.

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anything else?

The salon gives a free artist, not a free scientist, by the way.

I figure in an OCC that health is the biggest limiter, so one of the +2 health buildings has to be best. Obviously others differ, with the Forum winning out so far, but I figure the bonus from a philosophical leader like Peter is better. But I'm no expert; I comment merely from memory of articles others wrote about how to play an OCC.

+25% GP points is, considering you've built the NE, a 12.5% nominal increase. If you build the NE and are philosophical, a 8.33% nominal increase. If you've built the NE, are philosophical, and are in pacifism, it's a 6.25% increase.

How is that better then +2 health? After the GT, 2 health equals two specialists, which gives you less that a 6.25% nominal increase only if your base GPP is above 100. That just never happens.

Thanks for making the poll, z0wb13.

CivCorpse said:

A rather incomplete poll. What about the stock exchange for England? Since it comes with Redcoats as well? Ball court for for a Rep SE since resources may be scarce. Totem pole to survive the early game with no metal/horses in your culture.

Click to expand...

The context of the original question was given unrestricted leaders. I wonder if the original post should be edited to reflect that - how many people are picking the Forum because its attached to Rome?

My vote goes to the Apothecary or the Salon. The Research Institute is a close second but it comes so late in the game.

2 points are definitely not worth 2 citizens. I'm not even sure they're worth one.

Consider this: your city has grown to size 20, and you have a forge, so you now have 21 in your city. Say you have 17 , which is reasonable. You're at -4 , so it's eating 4 food, and because of that, you're now stagnant growth.

If you add 2 healthiness in, then you're up to 19 in the city, vs 21 still, but now get +2 food. This should let you grow an extra citizen, right? Yes, but when you grow, you get one more from overcrowding, and the citizen eats up 2 food of its own. So, when you think of it, when you're over your healthiness cap, each citizen eats up 3 food then. And at least for me, in a OCC, I'm almost never sitting under my health cap, so I don't think counting 2 health as 2 specialists is entirely fair.

Hmm. Maybe if you build the National Park, health eventually ceases to be a problem? (even without any forests left, the NP gets rid of population-induced pollution). So maybe the +2 health buildings are valuable in the mid-game but irrelevant in the late game?

I was thinking Unrestricted Leaders and I picked Rome.

My thoughts would be pairing it with an Industrious leader and trying to Max GPP.

Health may or may not be a big issue depending on the map. And then the health will likley only be an issue for the midgame.

Its not a contest. The Forum increases GPPs - which is what drives OCC. Together with the Partenon Augustus is nearly Philosophical as well as Industrious.

Augustus rules OCC. Without question:

- Industrious and Philo are the two ways to build a mammoth pile of settled GPPs. Well Augustus is nearly both. And Industrious is preferable for a OCC than Philo as it has the nice side benefit of taking the wonders away from the AI and slowing them down.

- Prats can defend your territory extremely well while you concentrate on wonderspamming. You don't need another military unit until much later.

- With Prats, the Great Wall and Imperialistic, declaring war on a neighbour just to rack up great general points is a very useful strategy. The settled GG get research bonuses under Representation and compensate for a lack of numbers in your army. (I played an Always War-OCC with Augustus once and ended up with around 15 great generals. A Mech Infantry Great General with around 400 XP is something awesome.)

Augustus is definitely a fine choice - probably the safest given how we get a strong UU that keeps enemies off our back and a fairly useful UB that's always going to be useful for our purposes - but Peter is also attractive.

Games last long enough that the Research Institute is likely to give excellent returns that are worth the wait (in regular games, there are enough ways of getting a ridiculous economy that I'd prefer a head start to them). Without the need for expansion, we might be able to get most wonders we care about anyway and PHI makes them pay off more quickly.
EXP isn't too exciting, but at least we get a head start and reduce our midgame health concerns a little.

SPI is another fine trait in my opinion and in the same league as PHI/IND, unfortunately I'm not impressed with any UBs of the spiritual leaders.

The Cothon strikes me as being the best, but that's without putting too much thought into it.

Under default settings, there's a significant chance we'll have no UB at all if we choose Carthage though...

Well, if I were to play OCC, I'd be regenerating the map to get a nice start location anyway.

Yeah, exactly. If you play with a Cothon UB, damn well better be coastal. Thinking about it, it would be one of the better ones. I've had OCC games where I get up to 10 or 12 coins per trade route, once you get all the customs house/artemis/etc... boosting stuff. Probably more valuable than a scientist.