[Pictures] Help with worker stealing on Deity please.

One of the biggest leaps from Emperor to Deity is going to be the lack of Chitzen Itza along with stealing a bunch of workers from AIs rather than 1 from a city state and hard building the rest. I'm really having an issue with this though, and I need to get a system that makes stealing workers reliable and consistent.

I stole both of these workers on the next turn and I proceeded to lose both of my units. The worker got under fire from the city, along with getting attacked by 2 warriors. The scout died by 1 city and 1 archer barrage in 1 turn.

What are signs that I can use that tell me that now is the time to steal the worker? Do I wait until later as turn 21 might be too early? But the longer I wait, the longer the AI has workers and the longer I don't have any workers. Thanks for all advice on this.

One thing I notice about Poland is that they have another worker on the edge of Warsaw instead of in between their lands like I took. Maybe I should wait by the edge of the lands instead of just going for the first that I see.

Also, how does everyone deal with barbs at this difficulty? It is really noticeable, because on Emperor, I never healed any of my units from barb attacks and I just chose the Heal Instantly promotion every single time. Here, I'm running the risk of losing units by using that same strategy.

Stealing workers was much easier before, now it's kinda tricky (ever since they reworked the tradition tree)
NEVER try to steal a worker if the victim has gone tradition (the +50% combat strength policy means your warrior dies to a city attack + warrior attack)

Try to use your warrior instead of your scout; and try not to be trapped by ZOC.

btw I manage deity games just fine stealing one worker from CS and chopping out the rest.


Steal a worker in the 2nd ring rather than the 1st.

Best, steal from a CS if it is hostile (your influence won't last long anyway) and/or it is useless early game (mercantile)

The 1st screenshot is not a good place to steal because of the barb camp (you may find yourself trapped by ZoC by a spawning barb on your way out)
The 2nd one it's obvious you will be trapped by ZoC once the warrior from the city comes out. Nonetheless, had your warrior been at full health/upgraded to spear, he can get away with that one if target had not gone tradition (grab the worker, but wait... next turn pillage the farm to heal and move one tile out... then you have a chance of surviving (at this point you can promote to heal and run away with your worker in the jungle)

btw barbs are a HUGE nuisance on deity (and in my experience, slow down you considerably way more than the AI); the only way to fight them consistently is to get archers/CBs/chariots

Stealing workers can be tricky initially. Generally, it is best to steal as early in the game as you can when the AI might be scouting with its initial units. Also, on deity the best situation for worker steal is when workers are moving between cities.

Few tips
-Try to steal when your unit is in maximum health.
-Do not forget pillaging whenever possible as it improves your units health.
-It is sometimes OK to loose your unit, if you can keep the worker. It is a good trade off to loose your scout for the worker. This scenario is possible when an archer is garrisoned inside the city.
-Try to get a good view of all the enemy units around and anticipate the next move of the enemy units.
-Plan for the safest trip for the stolen worker.

The worker steal at Krakow might not work, because the jungles in the north of Krakow will hinder your escape and escaping from the south is not possible. Note that both poland's warriors will move towards your warrior/stolen worker in the next move.
The worker steal at Warsaw is not possible with the current scenario as two warriors are within the range of the worker. But, you can wait and try for the steal if one or both warriors moves out of position. Sometimes it helps to wait for a turn or two and see if the AI makes any mistake by moving its military units away from the worker.

The situation near Vienna is not clear because there is no view of the north of the worker. If there are units there, it will be a failed attempt.

Hope this helps. Just keep practicing. After a few failed attempts, you will get a hang of it.

Are you sure that worker got hit by the city. I was of the impression that city does not attack workers.

One thing to have in mind, if there's two workers in adjacent tiles and some military around defending them, steal both, get hit by everything and lose one worker but escape with the other, it's not really a bad trade off

kb27787 said:

...NEVER try to steal a worker if the victim has gone tradition (the +50% combat strength policy means your warrior dies to a city attack + warrior attack)..

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Best piece of advice that I never though of myself.
The Krakow worker is a no-no atm. The Vienna one needs more scouting as previously suggested.

fallout3dc said:

Do I wait until later as turn 21 might be too early?

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Don't wait, steal as soon as you have the opportunity. Ideally, you want to steal from the first 1-2 Civs you meet, right when you meet them. Around turn 25 on Deity, you can steal from a CS (only one), and stay at war to farm the CS for workers until influence recovers.

You'll want enough visual on the city to see if he has units nearby. The Vienna pic is too risky, since you don't know where the AI's units are. As mentioned above, you really want your unit at full health. A warrior at full health can survive a shot from the city and a unit, but not the city and two units. A scout can sometimes survive two shots: when the city isn't very strong, e.g. is on hill, has oligarchy, or goddess of protection. Spears "can" survive three shots, but use your judgement.

Pay attention to terrain and make sure you have an escape route. In the Krakow pic, you're on the wrong side of his territory.

Also, on Deity, you can get some easy steals by lying in wait (beneath fog) between the AI's capitol and first expansion, and grabbing workers as the AI sends them to the new city. You can often get both his workers this way.

Hope this helps.

I just noticed this bit:

fallout3dc said:

...on Emperor, I never healed any of my units from barb attacks and I just chose the Heal Instantly promotion every single time.

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Using an instant heal when fighting barbs is kind of a waste because it means you are giving up one of the only two promotions you can earn from barb hunting. Instant heal when fighting CS/AI is certainly reasonable.

I hang out just outside a CS tile visibility, where I can see the unimproved lux (around turn 20 or so). The CS will produce a worker around this time and send it to the lux. Run in, steal, run out. Keep out of the CS's visibility and about ten to twenty turns later, another worker will appear. Grab it. Rinse repeat. The only trick is that you have to get your unit so that you can see into the CS territory but they can't see your unit. If the CS can see your scout/warrior, they will produce military units instead of another worker.

I don't xp up on CS by the way. I use them just to worker steal. If I want to train units, I DoW an actual civ and just never ever make peace. This is a good tool for making sure your neighbor stays small and worthless.

Primacide said:

The CS will produce a worker around this time and send it to the lux. Run in, steal, run out. Keep out of the CS's visibility and about ten to twenty turns later, another worker will appear. Grab it. Rinse repeat.

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This is consistent with my own experience. It just doesn't feel very efficient. Early game, I can't really spare a scout or warrior for 20 turns. If I am short of workers, 20 turns is too long. Even turning the worker into gold makes this a net loss.

Now, if my scout can keep scouting, and circle back about 20 turns later, that can [be a truly] free second worker. And the few games where I have been able to pull this same trick on an AI have been lots of fun!

A more secure way is to wait for the worker to finish improving the lux, steal the worker and pillage the tile AND THEN wait for another worker to appear and come repair the lux

I think if you can pillage a CS tile, may not even need to be a lux, you can snipe a second worker faster than 20 turns. But I am not a pro at this exploit!

That's a nice refinement - it didn't occur to me that a pillaged tile probably tells the AI to prioritize the worker ASAP. I bet it shaves at least a few turns.