What Founder and Enhancer beliefs do you usually choose?

What beliefs do you prefer when founding/enhancing your religion?

I know that when it come to Pantheon and Follower beliefs, it is much more game-specific - different situations call for different beliefs. But for me at least, I usually tend to go for the same Founder and Enhancer beliefs every time.

For example, I always go for Tithe. It gives by far the most gold in the long run, especially in BNW where empires tend to be taller and less wide.

I also tend to go for Religious Texts (religion spreads 25% faster), though sometimes I go for Itinerant Preachers as well (if I am playing a map where the AI's cities are spaced slightly further away from mine).

I have tried going for other beliefs but I find that they are generally not as good. For example, what's the point of having slightly stronger missionaries, or getting +15 influence resting point when Pledge to Protect + Consulates is enough to make you permafriends with every CS?

Tithe when tall, Ceremonial Burial when wide. Spreading the word of Shinto across the earth was the primary reason I was able to stay happy in my last domination game (America, Pangaea, Liberty start with 9 settled cities by the Industrial Era).

I still think Religious Texts is the strongest Enhancer despite the nerf; it gets your religion to your own cities faster, which is really the most important thing. It also increases resistance to conversion.

I tend to forget about Religion later in the game so I am starting to pick Initiation Rites instead of Tithe. Too many AI Prophet/Missionary spammers converting cities so like the fast 100 gold per city. Great Prophet a few cities early and you are at 400-500 gold pretty fast. If the spammers are slower to the draw you can get more faster. Of course Tithe can easily make up the difference if you pay more attention to it and can get the religion going faster to other cities

In Gods and Kings the idea of spreading religion everywhere seemed great, but in Brave New World I just use faith to purchase Cathedrals and great leaders.

My standard Pantheon belief these days is +production from either rivers or boats. It only ends up being a few hammers...but that matters when you're racing someone for a wonder. I tend to favour happiness and culture as religious tenants.

I like Tithe and Religious Texts, but Religious Community's bonus to production is sooo goood. If my intent is to play a peaceful game, I'll sometimes choose Swords into Plowshares.

1. Tithe / +2 gold per city that follows religion
2. Faster / Further religious growth
3. +15% growth when not at war, religious community

tedoll78 said:

I like Tithe and Religious Texts, but Religious Community's bonus to production is sooo goood. If my intent is to play a peaceful game, I'll sometimes choose Swords into Plowshares.

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Fortunately Religious Community and Swords into Plowshares are both follower beliefs so you can all of these at once! :U

I tend to focus on religion in a majority of my games, although not to a point of opening with Piety in most of them. As I go up higher on the difficulty levels, I've found that founding and spreading a religion gets more difficult, particularly if I want to have my religion be the dominant one. This is even more true the larger the map is. Regardless, I do make an effort to spread my religion around to my neighbors and everyone else that I can if they don't have a religion themselves. As a result, I don't always get first pick of what I tend to choose for my faith and sometimes I'm forced to pick ones that I don't necessarily favor at first choice.

However, given the opportunity of having first pick, I'd say I pick the following beliefs in order of listing, from most likely to least likely to choose:

Founder beliefs: Tithe - Ceremonial Burial - World Church - Initiation Rites - Interfaith Dialogue - Papal Primacy - Peace-Loving - Pilgrimage - Church Property

Enhancer beliefs: Itinerant Preachers - Religious Texts - Reliquary - Messiah - Holy Order - Missionary Zeal - Defender of the Faith - Just War - Religious Unity

For follower beliefs, I tend to go with whatever I think will maximize the benefits of my strategy or will synergize well with the Civ I'm playing as. I do like taking at least one faith-purchased building simply because of their many bonuses, even if I dislike that they have to be purchased with faith. I suppose taking a faith-giving belief would balance it out however, but most of them tend to be fairly weak in comparison to others.

I usually take itinerant preachers, but the one time I took holy order I was very pleased with it. It's like having the GMoDj but with a front loaded bonus.

Rohili said:

I have tried going for other beliefs but I find that they are generally not as good. For example, what's the point of having slightly stronger missionaries, or getting +15 influence resting point when Pledge to Protect + Consulates is enough to make you permafriends with every CS?

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You make a good point, although pledging to protect a city-states tends to provoke other civs to monkey with you. Unfortunately, the current diplomatic responses to such bullying are either inadequate or unfairly punitive. So I prefer to avoid such entanglements.

I agree that choosing Papal Primacy as a Founders belief is inferior to the two money-making beliefs (Tithes or Church Property.) However, I am currently experimenting with Byzantium, in which I take one money making belief and PP as the bonus belief. I dunno... maybe it will work. It sure makes me irritable with Venice and Austria, though.

Enhancer beliefs? Anything which helps spread the word of the true god. Its an act of mercy to the heathens.

Founder: I'll always choose Tithe. And since the AI isn't smart enough to take itself, I've never had to worry about a plan B.

Enhancer: For BNW, I'm thinking my new preferred order is 1) RT and 2) IP given the religion leakage from trade routes, but this has often been whichever the first AI to enhance did NOT choose. My plan B if I got beat to both would be Messiah. (Getting beat to both probably means that Missionaries don't do much good any more)

householder said:

You make a good point, although pledging to protect a city-states tends to provoke other civs to monkey with you. Unfortunately, the current diplomatic responses to such bullying are either inadequate or unfairly punitive. So I prefer to avoid such entanglements.

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The diplomatic penalty is insignificant though. I've had civs remain friends with me despite repeatedly refusing to "look the other way" when they attacked or asked for tribute from the CSes that I had pledged to protect.

I have a threadjack question:

Does Swords Into Plowshares affect base food (the way WLTKD does), or leftover food? Similarly Fertility Rites?

Pantheon: I try for Fertility Rites or failing that God of Craftsmen (unless there is a blindingly obvious one for my location)
Religion: usually a happiness one for the founder belief and try to get the one that spreads religion faster for the enhancer (can't think what it's called); but I don't bother founding a religion if one of the heavily religious civs is in the game (and you know that soon enough even if you haven't met them yet!)

parts said:

I have a threadjack question:

Does Swords Into Plowshares affect base food (the way WLTKD does), or leftover food? Similarly Fertility Rites?

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Left-over (surplus) food only.