Tourism comes too late to matter much...

Beastfeast · Jul 20, 2013

Most of the time I barely effect the other civs before it becomes clear that i've already won the game through another victory type (always conquest on prince :rolleyes:

). I would enjoy the game much more if I could influence civs earlier, say once they reach the industrial era. I don't think civs should require an ideology to be influenced by public opinion, nor should they have the luxury of being uninfluenced should they choose no to build 3 factories. Rather, they should have to found their own ideology or face city flipping. Also tourism needs a buff to make it more competitive with culture, because a good player can become almost untouchable culturally in the late game. Well that's been my experience in the last week of playing a few games. I haven't seen how the tourism game pans out online yet though.

I think a patch is needed to balance out victory types more and make conquest victories relatively less easy to achieve.

pwnerer · Jul 20, 2013

you should try conquest on king and then emperor. I dont think you will have as easy a time. Especially if its standard/continents

I_qua_I · Jul 21, 2013

Tourism needs an alternative use that can be profitable beginning in the classical age (where The Parthenon becomes available) or the tourism mechanic needs to be reworked to not be so passive. You would really never even know it's there save a rare few extraordinary circumstances until hotels and other amplifiers come into play. It feels incomplete and unimportant as it piggybacks on culture most of the time.

Qbone · Jul 21, 2013

Tourism is incredibly insignificant until Hotels and Airports become a thing. Even while adjusting my arts to get maximum benefits out of them, I'm often forced to wipe out 2 or 3 other civilizations simply because they get a whole deal of Golden Ages or whatever.

If two people are going for a cultural victory, it's basically GG and makes Cultural victories impossible, too. With the whole Culture offense/defense system, it's easy to get a total of 120 k culture, while only boasting maybe 40-50 k tourism, from personal experience (On Prince, mind you, I'm not a great player), despite having open borders, a shared religion, and an ideology that comes (horribly) late in the Tourism game. Maybe Tourism should also get a boost out of Golden Ages?

At the very least, there should be ways to boost Tourism more noticeably before Flight.

Feyd Rautha · Jul 21, 2013

I've won a cultural in the early 1800s as Brazil. The world was only halfway through the industrial age too so there were no hotels much less airports.

Golden ages, gwam specialist focus, and getting as many great work wonders as possible are the keys. Maybe France could do it but I doubt they would be as fast as Brazil.

Chronicle · Jul 21, 2013

Personally, Tourism should improve the gold you get from trade routes to city states/other civs. Makes sense, popular tourist spots are more profitable than ones that are not. Would give a reason to invest in early tourism.

Qbone · Jul 21, 2013

Personally, my main Civ was always Egypt, and I'd always go for a Cultural victory with them. I always thought their UA made them quite efficient at that. Unfortunately, though, I'm noticing that I can't win with Culture with the Egyptians until the 2000s now, compared to before, when I'd hit the Utopia Project at about mid-1850s or early 1900. Brazil would easily beat me now, and I don't know what to do with Egypt anymore.

I_qua_I · Jul 21, 2013

Qbone said:
Personally, my main Civ was always Egypt, and I'd always go for a Cultural victory with them. I always thought their UA made them quite efficient at that. Unfortunately, though, I'm noticing that I can't win with Culture with the Egyptians until the 2000s now, compared to before, when I'd hit the Utopia Project at about mid-1850s or early 1900. Brazil would easily beat me now, and I don't know what to do with Egypt anymore.

To be fair, the latter stages of the game are more drawn out period. There are other factors that are preventing you from finishing sooner other than tourism.

Morningcalm · Jul 21, 2013

Qbone said:
Personally, my main Civ was always Egypt, and I'd always go for a Cultural victory with them. I always thought their UA made them quite efficient at that. Unfortunately, though, I'm noticing that I can't win with Culture with the Egyptians until the 2000s now, compared to before, when I'd hit the Utopia Project at about mid-1850s or early 1900. Brazil would easily beat me now, and I don't know what to do with Egypt anymore.

Right? You'd think famous ancient wonders like the Pyramids would generate some tourism, but nooooo. Seriously, there should be at least a late game policy that allows ancient wonders to unlock tourism. Or maybe Egypt's UA should be reworked to add some tourism here and there (i.e. Egypt's ancient and classical wonders all generate +3 tourism in the Modern Age).

Yrrebnot · Jul 21, 2013

They could probably make all of the wonders create tourism when you enter an age and make it change depending on their age, like when you hit renaissance ancient wonders produce 1 tourism
industrial ancients produce 2 and classical produce 1 and so on maybe make them all produce 1 at renaissance and then scale upward from there... (2,1,1,1 ind 3,2,1,1,1 modern 4,3,2,1,1,1 atomic etc)

Qbone · Jul 21, 2013

Yrrebnot said:
They could probably make all of the wonders create tourism when you enter an age and make it change depending on their age, like when you hit renaissance ancient wonders produce 1 tourism
industrial ancients produce 2 and classical produce 1 and so on maybe make them all produce 1 at renaissance and then scale upward from there... (2,1,1,1 ind 3,2,1,1,1 modern 4,3,2,1,1,1 atomic etc)

I honestly like this.

CornPlanter · Jul 21, 2013

Yrrebnot said:
They could probably make all of the wonders create tourism when you enter an age and make it change depending on their age, like when you hit renaissance ancient wonders produce 1 tourism
industrial ancients produce 2 and classical produce 1 and so on maybe make them all produce 1 at renaissance and then scale upward from there... (2,1,1,1 ind 3,2,1,1,1 modern 4,3,2,1,1,1 atomic etc)

I am surprised it's not in game yet. Wonders generating tourism, was it too difficult concept to come up with for devs?

Yrrebnot · Jul 21, 2013

CornPlanter said:
I am surprised it's not in game yet. Wonders generating tourism, was it too difficult concept to come up with for devs?

Surprise we didnt do any QA... wait that isnt a surprise they are just letting the paying public (ie us) beta test for them, like most developers these days. Le sigh.

_megafone_ · Jul 21, 2013

Any stuff that gives you Tourism also give you Culture, so they are not irrelevant at all in the early game. It's just that the mechanic is set up so you can't start flipping cities too early.

BobDole · Jul 21, 2013

Yrrebnot said:
Surprise we didnt do any QA... wait that isnt a surprise they are just letting the paying public (ie us) beta test for them, like most developers these days. Le sigh.

Or not. Threads are for discussion, not ranting/whining. It was tested. No game is perfect at launch.

Tourism needs an alternative use that can be profitable beginning in the classical age (where The Parthenon becomes available) or the tourism mechanic needs to be reworked to not be so passive. You would really never even know it's there save a rare few extraordinary circumstances until hotels and other amplifiers come into play. It feels incomplete and unimportant as it piggybacks on culture most of the time

Tourism makes more sense coming later, when people can actually, you know, tour. It'd be kind of silly for a civ to be attracting tourists from all over the world when there's no modern transportation. The minor amount of tourism available early in the game doesn't really do anything, but that's not a bad thing. Besides, the game's supposed to be a bit less strict about VCs (so that you don't have to plan a certain victory from Turn 1, necessarily).

Personally, Tourism should improve the gold you get from trade routes to city states/other civs. Makes sense, popular tourist spots are more profitable than ones that are not. Would give a reason to invest in early tourism.

Makes sense, but there's arguably already too much gold in the game, so that's probably why Firaxis didn't do it. Trade routes already pull in huge amounts of cash, perhaps too much.

I am surprised it's not in game yet. Wonders generating tourism, was it too difficult concept to come up with for devs?

You already get Tourism from converting your culture (which most/all Wonders produce, albeit sometimes in small amounts) via hotels, airports, etc.

Not saying that Culture Victory is perfect at the moment, but it's a lot more interesting than the Utopia Project, and besides.....the game just came out. I'm guessing a lot of people, once they learn the game more, can put up better victories.

aljung · Jul 21, 2013

I personally like the current system. It forces you to have a decent amount of culture/tourism. In general I like the way they make you be an allround civ until midgame.

Yrrebnot · Jul 21, 2013

BobDole said:
Or not. Threads are for discussion, not ranting/whining. It was tested. No game is perfect at launch.

I know im just being a jerk about it... So many bad experiences. Firaxis are one of the better developers today in that regard was more a dig at the industry in general.

Seek · Jul 21, 2013

Wonders give culture which creates tourism when hotels/airports are present. So - they do generate tourism.

Chiatroll · Jul 21, 2013

Feyd Rautha said:
I've won a cultural in the early 1800s as Brazil. The world was only halfway through the industrial age too so there were no hotels much less airports.

Golden ages, gwam specialist focus, and getting as many great work wonders as possible are the keys. Maybe France could do it but I doubt they would be as fast as Brazil.

I have a close brazil experience barely having hotels and winning and only taking as long as I did because of runaway Austria while the rest of the world was all wearing my bluejeans.

Carnival is insane. The best culture UA there is.

SilverDash · Jul 21, 2013

On deity you will not win a tourism victory in the 1800 I'd say. Even if you posses every single wonder up to that point (which is unlikely anyway) you won't have enough tourism to beat their gigantic cultural defenses. Hotels and airports and all that stuff is a must unless you decide to use military force combined with tourism. But a peaceful high difficulty cultural victory is one I yet have to see (I failed multiple times) because the AI cheats it's culture gain way too hard. The only viable peaceful option that I know about is by out-teching the AI really really hard and getting your tourism up before they amass their huge culture.

Tourism comes too late to matter much...

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