Single Player bugs and crashes v35 plus (SVN) - After the 18th of August 2014

Harrier · May 21, 2015

JosEPh_II said:
And there is always another new issue that keeps pushing the old stuff down the list. Been that way for years. If it doesn't pop up on a regular basis, it's been like this, move on to something that is creating current issues.

JosEPh

What the mod needs is a project manager.

A difficult task. Because individuals only want to work on the parts of the mod that interests' them, understandably. Also people come and go, sometimes leaving unfinished projects.

So I guess no takers for PM.

But the mod team need to appoint someone who can produce a list of things that need to be addressed and then prioritize them. So that they are not forgotten, until a problem reappears months/years later. Even if that list is not worked on straight away.

At least modding newcomers would know of the areas that need to be worked on. No matter how old they are.

Not a project manager - but a project co-ordinator.

Are you up for it JosEPh.

I am not.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 21, 2015

We have tried a couple of times. Even used bug tracking software, but it is always too difficult to use since it is not a by product of reporting problems and fixes on these forums and the SVN software.

Noriad2 · May 21, 2015

alberts2 said:
I did some more research and it's just a big mess it makes me. There definitely some errors in the code which could explain a few odd things. But those issues are in very old code so those issues exist since a very long time.

Heya Alberts2, thank you for looking. Yes the bug is probably very old. I found C2C when it was version 33, and it already had the bug (and I reported it on the forum then: see http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=525029 ).

As the bug is about things being counted double after re-doing a calculation, my hunch would be that the variable holding the sum total is not reset to zero before re-doing the calculation after a city conquest, which is a common programming mistake. But the cause could of course be somewhere else entirely.

There are of course two ways to solve such a bug. The neat way would be to find the exact spot the bug occurs and rewrite that part of the code. The dirty way would be to invoke a recalculation (which is done manually with SHIFT-CTRL-T) each time a city is conquered as this tends to solve the bug too. Since recalc takes a while, it would be better if this is done only for the conquered city.

Of course the more changes are made to the code (dirty or not), the more the code becomes spaghetti until nobody can make heads or tails of it, and making the simplest change becomes a maddening job. This cartoon tells it well:

http://i.imgur.com/YOmDuDV.jpg

george585 · May 22, 2015

Adam Smith Trading Company Wonder is not displaying any tooltip info when you hover your mouse over it in the construction queue, so you don't know what it "actually" gives you when you build it. Actually it's been like this since a very long time, I played RoM AND2 before and it too had this issue, so must be something going back to the RoM base perhaps?

JosEPh_II · May 22, 2015

Harrier said:
What the mod needs is a project manager.

A difficult task. Because individuals only want to work on the parts of the mod that interests' them, understandably. Also people come and go, sometimes leaving unfinished projects. So I guess no takers for PM.

But the mod team need to appoint someone who can produce a list of things that need to be addressed and then prioritize them. So that they are not forgotten, until a problem reappears months/years later. Even if that list is not worked on straight away.

At least modding newcomers would know of the areas that need to be worked on. No matter how old they are.

Not a project manager - but a project co-ordinator.

Are you up for it JosEPh.

I am not.

IF or ever When DH and SO would ask me I would take it into consideration.

But I've rubbed many of the Modders the wrong way to their way of thinking over the years because I have strong feelings over C2C and it's direction.

With all the Respect I have for SO and now DH as Head of the Mod (and I hold both in High Esteem) there were times I felt that SO should've been a bit more "dictatorial" in how much and how far some of the projects went. And how much time was put into testing before being added thru the SVN or Patches (before the SVN days started). Also there should've been times when a new item caused multiple problems that it should've been pulled till the modder got it fixed or asked for help. And I feel there were times when a sound "No not gonna happen, not gonna be added in" should've been applied. The Mod's pace and shear amount of additions before proper testing has burned out 3 Very Competent "Programmers/Coders". That should have never happened.

But then I remind myself that this is a collaborative effort from players that can mod and enjoy what they do/did. And it's not a business but a Hobby. Arm chair "directors" are a dime a dozen now aren't they.

JosEPh

Yudishtira · May 22, 2015

All bug tracking needs is a google doc spreadsheet and a couple of people to maintain it.
It must be possible to allow everyone to see a google doc, but prevent all but a select few from updating it.

What more do you need?

Arakhor · May 22, 2015

Quality control and people finishing what they start (I'm a horror for this myself) would be two good things.

alberts8 · May 22, 2015

Yudishtira said:
All bug tracking needs is a google doc spreadsheet and a couple of people to maintain it.
It must be possible to allow everyone to see a google doc, but prevent all but a select few from updating it.

What more do you need?

We already have a bug tracker in our sourceforge project. All the modders have write access.

Here in the forum many things just get lost if you don't have time to do them right now.

alberts8 · May 22, 2015

JosEPh_II said:
Started having non-repeating CTDs at 740BC. Finally caught a repeatable one with this save at 690BC. Minidump included below. Just the EoT button.

On the non repeaters I could load up last save point and ply back up to the turn that would CTD during EoT, usually 2 turns to get back to that point. Then I started saving every turn and had 2 more that would not repeat.

I'll be po'ed if I can go back now and it will play past this one too after 2 attempts to get past it.

Added info every EoT that did not repeat had a tech researched at beginning of next turn. Hope this helps.

I have not updated to latest SVN, this is from SVN 8521

JosEPh

Fixed

Talin2009 said:
Btw, speed is marathon, not eternity.

Actually, i have around 1000 mil units, i have 2 main armies - stacks of 400-500 each, navy stack of 200, and several lesser stacks of 5-10 + garrisons in cities. That's approx estimate ofc.

And i witnessed myself Cholan stack having 370 culverins + 370 falconets, not sure what was rest of stack =)

I do realize they all go through calculations, but it has been that way long ago, i remember playing enormous maps and AI stacks of 600-800 units =) It takes some time, but modern computers have processing power much better then 20 years ago (i remember my first PC - 486 with 16 Mb RAM =) ).

All in all, in my particular case it is highlighted that some extra calculations going on, im sure. And if alberts finds out which and where it could help in overall C2C performance.

And i'm nowhere done in that map, im looking forward for my orbital bombers =)))

You can try the latest svn i found something in CvPlot::getBestDefender. In a test turn the time for that function has gone from 1148 seconds to 343 seconds that helps a bit that turn went from 52 minutes to a bit under 40.

JosEPh_II · May 22, 2015

alberts2 said:
Fixed

You can try the latest svn i found something in CvPlot::getBestDefender. In a test turn the time for that function has gone from 1148 seconds to 343 seconds that helps a bit that turn went from 52 minutes to a bit under 40.

Thank you alberts2.

Now back to seiging Pacal.

JosEPh

Dancing Hoskuld · May 22, 2015

alberts2 said:
Where are all the Neanderthals comming from? do they build them in their cities?

They are getting them free when the city is being built. It happens when the Barbarian city can not build any valid defenders. I assume the problem there is that while stone throwers are valid defenders for the player they are not considered such for barbarians.

These Neanderthal units are making my style of play almost impossible at Noble level. Note: I usually play without Neanderthals spawning.

alberts8 · May 22, 2015

Dancing Hoskuld said:
They are getting them free when the city is being built. It happens when the Barbarian city can not build any valid defenders. I assume the problem there is that while stone throwers are valid defenders for the player they are not considered such for barbarians.

These Neanderthal units are making my style of play almost impossible at Noble level. Note: I usually play without Neanderthals spawning.

They don't have access to other units at the time their first cities spawn, that was why those cities had no defenders. Should i give them another unit in that case and which one should it be?

Dancing Hoskuld · May 22, 2015

alberts2 said:
They don't have access to other units at the time their first cities spawn, that was why those cities had no defenders. Should i give them another unit in that case and which one should it be?

They should have access to stone throwers as that unit does not have any prerequisites and upgrades to the defending units they usually build ie Atla-atla and archer units.

The brute is another unit that has no requirements.

My question is why are those units not considered by the code?

alberts8 · May 22, 2015

Dancing Hoskuld said:
They should have access to stone throwers as that unit does not have any prerequisites and upgrades to the defending units they usually build ie Atla-atla and archer units.

The brute is another unit that has no requirements.

My question is why are those units not considered by the code?

The code does not consider those units because they don't have access to any of them in the moment their first cities spawn. I did not check why they can't have those units at that point in the game because i'am afraid that i just find more stuff to fix in all that code.

Thunderbrd · May 22, 2015

alberts2 said:
The code does not consider those units because they don't have access to any of them in the moment their first cities spawn. I did not check why they can't have those units at that point in the game because i'am afraid that i just find more stuff to fix in all that code.

If I'm not mistaken, I looked into this a while back briefly - that part of it - and noticed that those units they should be building aren't given city defense AI settings and are therefore not considered.

alberts8 · May 22, 2015

Thunderbrd said:
If I'm not mistaken, I looked into this a while back briefly - that part of it - and noticed that those units they should be building aren't given city defense AI settings and are therefore not considered.

The Brute and the Stone Thrower have UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE and the code looks for a UNITAI_ATTACK unit in case there are no valid units with UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 22, 2015

Thunderbrd said:
If I'm not mistaken, I looked into this a while back briefly - that part of it - and noticed that those units they should be building aren't given city defense AI settings and are therefore not considered.

The stone thrower even has its default AI set to city defense.

I can see no reason in the XML that one of the two should not be considered and accepted by the code. Neither has prerequisite bonuses or technologies so they are available at the time of the city being built.

Maybe the barbarians have the tech for the upgrades but not the resources - grasping at straws here.

Yudishtira · May 22, 2015

alberts2 said:
They don't have access to other units at the time their first cities spawn, that was why those cities had no defenders. Should i give them another unit in that case and which one should it be?

Would city defence UNITAI ensure they stayed put? How come neanders stay guarding huts, but not in cities?

jshetley · May 22, 2015

I'm not sure what version of the SVN I have since I got the file from Sparth's link a few days ago , but the AI is not right. I just watched the French make a tribe, move it out, then bring it back to the capital and DELETE it. That cant be right.

Edit: It looks like going into the world builder and making a couple of terrain changes in there messed it up. I used a save I kept before going into the WB and Napoleon founded his 2nd city just fine. It looks like the WB needs some work done on it.

Sparth · May 23, 2015

jshetley said:
I'm not sure what version of the SVN I have since I got the file from Sparth's link a few days ago , but the AI is not right. I just watched the French make a tribe, move it out, then bring it back to the capital and DELETE it. That cant be right.

Here you have newest version of the mod:
https://docs.google.com/uc?authuser=0&id=0B6VuHphw5zHzQW9QazlTcTlmM1E&export=download

Single Player bugs and crashes v35 plus (SVN) - After the 18th of August 2014

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