Wonders of the Ancient World Deluxe

This is looking really good! Are you currently open to suggestions, for I have a few ideas for this project (even though I cannot currently play Civilization since it is being a crashaholic right now :( ).
 
Certainly, though keep in mind that not everything is going to be possible.
 
Ok, here are some ideas I have:


New Civilizations -

Sukritact's Phoenicia
Tomatekh's Harappa
RyanJames's Akkadian Empire
Gedemo's Nubia
Leugi's Philistines

More Geographic Changes - I read that the Nile had been turned into coast instead of rivers, and if it isn't already implemented, I believe that you could also change out some other prominent rivers such as the Tigris & Euphrates as well as (if the map reaches far east enough; I actually have never fully explored the WotAW historical map) the Indus.


3UC/4UC - Despite many modded civilizations have not been given support for 3rd Unique Component, let alone 4th Unique Component, I believe that one or two additional UU/UB/UIs wouldn't be too hard to code (of course I have no right to say this; I've never modded to be completely honest :3 ).


Events & Decisions - Sukritact's Events & Decisions is an amazing mod. In fact, the only reason why I don't use it more often is because I normally use the 43 Civ DLL for YnAEMP, which I haven't gotten to work with E&D. This would just add some immersion to the game IMO, which would make it even better than it already is currently. :)
 
spendabuck said:
Ok, here are some ideas I have:


New Civilizations -

Sukritact's Phoenicia
Tomatekh's Harappa
RyanJames's Akkadian Empire
Gedemo's Nubia


More Geographic Changes - I read that the Nile had been turned into coast instead of rivers, and if it isn't already implemented, I believe that you could also change out some other prominent rivers such as the Tigris & Euphrates as well as (if the map reaches far east enough; I actually have never fully explored the WotAW historical map) the Indus.


3UC/4UC - Despite many modded civilizations have not been given support for 3rd Unique Component, let alone 4th Unique Component, I believe that one or two additional UU/UB/UIs wouldn't be too hard to code (of course I have no right to say this; I've never modded to be completely honest :3 ).


Events & Decisions - Sukritact's Events & Decisions is an amazing mod. In fact, the only reason why I don't use it more often is because I normally use the 43 Civ DLL for YnAEMP, which I haven't gotten to work with E&D. This would just add some immersion to the game IMO, which would make it even better than it already is currently. :)
Click to expand...

The map doesn't extend far enough for Harappa, and Akkad would probably be too close to Babylon and Israel. IDK about making the Euphrates & Tigris coast; making the Nile coast was Pouakai's suggestion, and sounded good at the time.

The reason not many mods have been given 3UC/4UC support is simply because that project has taken assets from existing modded civs, and so is inherently opposed to supporting custom civilizations. Not to mention it is not something that I, or, AFAIK, Jan or Sukritact or Leugi are interested in using; in which case creating the extra art assets and extra code doesn't seem worth the time; especially for this small project.

E&D works fine with the scenario, btw. I can't imagine why it wouldn't work with the 43 Civ DLL, incidentally.
 
spendabuck said:
Sukritact's Phoenicia
Tomatekh's Harappa
RyanJames's Akkadian Empire
Gedemo's Nubia
Leugi's Philistines
Click to expand...

I'd actually say a lot of those civs are too early. Not counting the Pyramids, the other six wonders are only constructed starting at 650 BC with the last one being destroyed about 1500 AD. The scenario is meant to primarily portray that period in history. Sumeria is actually anachronistic in the original scenario, but they probably didn't want to use Assyria because of future expansion plans.
 
JFD, something else: why did you include both Tyre and Byblos in the scenario? In my last game(un-updated) tyre settled in the middle of turkey....
 
Even when JFD is unable to make mods, he is still able to make mods. JFD confirmed for immortal and unstoppable God of Civ 5 modding.
 
Random minor question: do Dur-Sharrukin and Chagha Zambil exist/are reskins of existing modded wonders? I mean of course if one's effect is 'is a workshop' then I'm sure it's not there, but I simply ponder.

I have vague notions of suggesting, like, the Garamantes to be added, though the map just stops juuuuuust short of them - maybe they could be right on the edge? I perfectly understand if that just doesn't work out though, they don't...really have that much of a place in the scenario ^^

Oh! And what about wonders like the Parthenon and Pantheon? They're certainly period appropriate. On the latter...I do wonder, does Piety & Prestige work with this? I can see why it wouldn't since you're kind of in the midst of making the Prestige part exist.
 
spendabuck said:
That's fine. But what about my suggestions to add Phoenicia & Nubia?
Click to expand...

It's a pretty small map, and I think 9 civs is enough tbh.

Natan35 said:
JFD, something else: why did you include both Tyre and Byblos in the scenario? In my last game(un-updated) tyre settled in the middle of turkey....
Click to expand...

I didn't. Firaxis did. Tyre probably settled there because it was too close to Tarsus (or whatever). I fixed that in the latest update.

Gyra Solune said:
Random minor question: do Dur-Sharrukin and Chagha Zambil exist/are reskins of existing modded wonders? I mean of course if one's effect is 'is a workshop' then I'm sure it's not there, but I simply ponder.

I have vague notions of suggesting, like, the Garamantes to be added, though the map just stops juuuuuust short of them - maybe they could be right on the edge? I perfectly understand if that just doesn't work out though, they don't...really have that much of a place in the scenario ^^

Oh! And what about wonders like the Parthenon and Pantheon? They're certainly period appropriate. On the latter...I do wonder, does Piety & Prestige work with this? I can see why it wouldn't since you're kind of in the midst of making the Prestige part exist.
Click to expand...

Dur-Sharrukin is a wonder that was created for Prestige by the prestigious Sukritact, but I thought it fit as a prosperous wonder for the scenario (and was strapped for wonders anyway). The Great Ziggurat is available under the More Wonders banner.

yeah, Garamantes would have no chance.

I wouldn't want to add the Pantheon because Rome couldn't fit in the scenario, and I've already used the Parthenon as one of the religious-exclusive buildings.
 
Oh right, the Pantheon's in Rome, silly me. I didn't notice the Parthenon anywhere, maybe I just didn't look hard enough.

Just played a game as Egypt - at first I was like 'wait they're totally screwed' because the Nile being made water inadverdently had the affect of no (immediately noticeable) flood plain tiles on the map except for the Tigris and Euphrates, but to my surprise it somehow made desert tiles next to the Nile into flood plains...huh, intriguing.

However I don't think the UA worked - the faith and culture didn't seem to apply either to my shrines or the religious buildings I bought...is it only supposed to apply to said buildings, and it broke because I was using More Pantheons or something? But then, the big thing is that I was buying Pagodas, which, while it seems odd to be there, isn't something from More Pantheons...Anyways yeah, something seems amiss. Egypt still doesn't seem that great TBH, maybe just because the War Chariot's just okay and even with the weirdness on the Nile there's not THAT many tiles the Nilometer applies to, I think I only ever actually got one tile >> And for Decisions, one isn't applicable and the other isn't that useful since you'll likely only ever pass one or two other decisions, if that. I think I only managed because I got two free Magistrate events in a row.

Surprisingly I actually won though! Basically I just sent two warriors and an archer to VERY SLOWLY conquer the two city-states nearby, largely seeking to have them high-leveled. Since I was raking in early EXP I had surprisingly free reign to Zeus and the Lighthouse, and my faith kinda snowballed so I managed to get those two wonders too...with a mere three units (though tbf a logistics/range archer is unstoppable) I tore through Israel, picking off Sargon's place they were foolishly building while I was conquering, but leaving the actual capital since there was nothing good there.

And incredibly all the other wonders were located solely in Babylon and Knossos, so I started gearing up to mount a huge naval invasion alongside tag-teaming Babylon...except...uh, suddenly I won, because I finished the last wonder and had the highest score. Whoops! Thought I had to be in possession of all of them, but apparently not!

Some slight reccomendations: I feel a liiiiittle like it didn't last long enough? On lower levels I imagine you just tear through most of the wonders yourself, on higher ones they're likely all built pretty quickly and you're scrambling to do anything you can, but it does kinda mean that you barely get to see end-of-tech tree stuff. Maybe just slightly bump up wonder production costs? Like, 15 to 20%, maybe even up to 30%, just so that all the wonders don't fly by so fast. In addition, is it intended that there aren't any barbarians? If so, it seems like they should exist, and if not, well, there certainly weren't any barbarians on the map. ...Possibly it broke because I was using Leugi's Barbarian Enhancements mod? But what why would that even happen

Otherwise everything seemed to work fine, Egypt UA issues aside. As a note I was using Events and Decisions, More Luxuries and Pantheons, the Community Patch, CulDiv, Map Labels, and maybe something else but I'm not sure. They all seemed to behave fine. Didn't use P&P like I threatened ^^
 
Gyra Solune said:
Otherwise everything seemed to work fine, Egypt UA issues aside. As a note I was using Events and Decisions, More Luxuries and Pantheons, the Community Patch, CulDiv, Map Labels, and maybe something else but I'm not sure. They all seemed to behave fine. Didn't use P&P like I threatened ^^
Click to expand...

I dunno what JFD would say, but i think its probably not a good idea to use mods with scenario. (But you don't need to listen to me because i dunno)
 
Some mods work, some don't. Events and Decisions. More Luxuries, Community Patch, CulDiv, Map Labels should be fine (I used most of them without trouble). I don't know about More Pantheons, but Historical Religions is not compatible due to how the religion choices are restricted in the scenario.
 
More pantheons.. Working, though, JFD, you should adjust the beliefs....
 
janboruta said:
but Historical Religions is not compatible due to how the religion choices are restricted in the scenario.
Click to expand...

But Historical Religions isn't really needed anyway since the mod includes several of the religions from HR Complete to ensure every scenario civ has a unique religion (unless someone was really itching to have Sumer found Voodoo). Maybe add a block to HR Complete if the scenario doesn't already have one?
 
Gyra Solune said:
Oh right, the Pantheon's in Rome, silly me. I didn't notice the Parthenon anywhere, maybe I just didn't look hard enough.

Just played a game as Egypt - at first I was like 'wait they're totally screwed' because the Nile being made water inadverdently had the affect of no (immediately noticeable) flood plain tiles on the map except for the Tigris and Euphrates, but to my surprise it somehow made desert tiles next to the Nile into flood plains...huh, intriguing.

However I don't think the UA worked - the faith and culture didn't seem to apply either to my shrines or the religious buildings I bought...is it only supposed to apply to said buildings, and it broke because I was using More Pantheons or something? But then, the big thing is that I was buying Pagodas, which, while it seems odd to be there, isn't something from More Pantheons...Anyways yeah, something seems amiss. Egypt still doesn't seem that great TBH, maybe just because the War Chariot's just okay and even with the weirdness on the Nile there's not THAT many tiles the Nilometer applies to, I think I only ever actually got one tile >> And for Decisions, one isn't applicable and the other isn't that useful since you'll likely only ever pass one or two other decisions, if that. I think I only managed because I got two free Magistrate events in a row.

Surprisingly I actually won though! Basically I just sent two warriors and an archer to VERY SLOWLY conquer the two city-states nearby, largely seeking to have them high-leveled. Since I was raking in early EXP I had surprisingly free reign to Zeus and the Lighthouse, and my faith kinda snowballed so I managed to get those two wonders too...with a mere three units (though tbf a logistics/range archer is unstoppable) I tore through Israel, picking off Sargon's place they were foolishly building while I was conquering, but leaving the actual capital since there was nothing good there.

And incredibly all the other wonders were located solely in Babylon and Knossos, so I started gearing up to mount a huge naval invasion alongside tag-teaming Babylon...except...uh, suddenly I won, because I finished the last wonder and had the highest score. Whoops! Thought I had to be in possession of all of them, but apparently not!

Some slight reccomendations: I feel a liiiiittle like it didn't last long enough? On lower levels I imagine you just tear through most of the wonders yourself, on higher ones they're likely all built pretty quickly and you're scrambling to do anything you can, but it does kinda mean that you barely get to see end-of-tech tree stuff. Maybe just slightly bump up wonder production costs? Like, 15 to 20%, maybe even up to 30%, just so that all the wonders don't fly by so fast. In addition, is it intended that there aren't any barbarians? If so, it seems like they should exist, and if not, well, there certainly weren't any barbarians on the map. ...Possibly it broke because I was using Leugi's Barbarian Enhancements mod? But what why would that even happen

Otherwise everything seemed to work fine, Egypt UA issues aside. As a note I was using Events and Decisions, More Luxuries and Pantheons, the Community Patch, CulDiv, Map Labels, and maybe something else but I'm not sure. They all seemed to behave fine. Didn't use P&P like I threatened ^^
Click to expand...

I'll check out the UA, and I really didn't consider the effect of turning the Nile into a river would have on the Nilometer (the effects are exactly as in the scenario, so I didn't pay close enough attention).

I'll bump up the production costs of wonders, too, and have a look at barbarians - they should be there.

The scenario isn't really designed to support P&P; it could work, but probably not well :p

Thanks for the report :)

Oh, and the Pagodas are actually (Burial Tombs? Or Step Pyramids. One of them). I fixed that issue in the latest update.

Natan35 said:
More pantheons.. Working, though, JFD, you should adjust the beliefs....
Click to expand...

Nah. Bored of the scenario now :p

Tomatekh said:
But Historical Religions isn't really needed anyway since the mod includes several of the religions from HR Complete to ensure every scenario civ has a unique religion (unless someone was really itching to have Sumer found Voodoo). Maybe add a block to HR Complete if the scenario doesn't already have one?
Click to expand...

Guess I could do that. It's not quite as obvious that you shouldn't use HR as mods like R&R.
 
Yeah the Nilometer thing was weird, because at first the deserts next to the Nile were just desert tiles but once they were built, they turned them into flood plains, at least in description, they remained having the exact same appearance.
 
Sounds good - I must try this scenario out.

I do think the Greek UA could use a bit of help though. Is Greece supposed to be a pure domination civ in this map because they have very little land to quickly expand too? You either need early optics or walk settlers all the way from Greece, through Macedonia past Byzantium and into Anatolia if you want to settle more cities.
Then the UA is only about citystates but the issue is this scenario is so fast that I don't know if that UA really provides a lot of benefit.
 
Played on King as the Minoans and won without trouble. They're really, really strong; planting my bonus settler next to Mount Olympus just ruined Greece, and my boats finished off Athens soon after. Said boats also met all those coastal city-states first, meaning a load of gold and a religion.
After that I was kinda set for the rest of the game. Sat back, traded, built tall, never had any trouble past the start, happiness aside. Production wasn't incredible, but my cities were so strong that I beat everyone to the requirements for most wonders.
Had a blast, and I should probably try it on a higher difficulty, but the Minoans seem pretty OP. But that's okay.

The small tweaks to the policy trees are very much appreciated. Weakening tradition and buffing liberty in a wonder-based scenario is a good move.

The lack of the "just one more turn" button is decidedly not. No reason for the scenario not to have that. No reason for any scenario not to have that!
The lack of city raising is pretty terrible too. I get that we can't go burning down wonders, but not being able to burn down the AI's dumb cities just kills any desire for conquest, and a ton of the civs seem geared for war. I'd highly, HIGHLY recommend fixing this; make it so wonder cities can't be razed but everything else is fair game.
 
Updated to v3:

  • Added additional Flood Plains to Egypt's starting location.
  • Fixed issue where Egyptian UA was not working properly.
  • Added block for Tomatekh's Historical Religions.
  • Removed free starting settler for Minoa.
  • Greek UA changed to increase the generation of Great Generals and to grant a combat bonus vs city-states (combination of China and Mongol UA, basically).
  • Slightly increased the production costs of wonders
  • Slightly reduced the cost of the first Social Policy
  • Increased the maximum number of religions allowed to 4
  • Fixed issue where Step Pyramids were being referred to as Pagodas
  • Fixed an issue where Missionaries and Inquisitors could be purchased before founding a religion (and with Gold no less)

Nothing that I could find to address the issues with razing cities, barbarians, or continuing after all wonders are completed.
 
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