Multi-tile Natural Wonders

qadams · Aug 17, 2016

As both a map addict and a Civ fanatic, I have a great love of natural wonders, especially those that make an overwhelming impression when seen in real life. We've now learned that Civ 6 will include several wonders that cover multiple tiles.

A quick list:

Cliffs of Dover (2 tiles)
The Dead Sea (2 tiles)
Great Barrier Reef (2 tiles)
Mount Everest (3 tiles)
Pantanal (4 tiles)
Piopiotahi (3 tiles)
Torres del Paine (2 tiles)
Yosemite (2 tiles)

There may be even more of these extra-large beauties yet to be revealed, such as the Galápagos Islands, the Grand Canyon, and perhaps others.

In any case, what we know so far could imply a few things. First, in order to make room for all these tile-hogging features, a somewhat larger basic map might be required. Second, because they are so cool -- and because they all exist at once in the real world -- the frequency of their occurrence might be somewhat higher in Civ 6 than in Civ 5. I would really like that.

What are your thoughts?

Silverdawn · Aug 17, 2016

You can see pictures here:
http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ6_terrain.html#natural_wonders

isau · Aug 17, 2016

I really hope the Natural Wonders are more relevant this time around.

They were a very cool addition in Civ V. But then the way the map scripts worked, FAR too often you'd find a NW and then on the next step find the City State that was about to steal it. I hope this time around we actually get to fight other civs for a place near the wonder, because they were often disappointing in V.

(Oh, and please never again a mechanic like Spain's "win the lottery on turn 5 or throw your UA away").

qadams · Aug 17, 2016

isau said:
I really hope the Natural Wonders are more relevant this time around.

They were a very cool addition in Civ V. But then the way the map scripts worked, FAR too often you'd find a NW and then on the next step find the City State that was about to steal it. I hope this time around we actually get to fight other civs for a place near the wonder, because they were often disappointing in V.

I agree that it was extremely annoying in Civ V to discover a valuable natural wonder, and then find that it was one tile away from a city state's borders. Grrr!! Let's hope the map scripts in VI will make that happen a little less often.

ProMeTheus112 · Aug 17, 2016

I wish some of them had random size/shape too to make them even more unique not only in looks but value

qadams · Aug 17, 2016

Silverdawn said:
You can see pictures here:
http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ6_terrain.html#natural_wonders

Thanks for the link, Silverdawn. I added it to my OP.

Sansa_Stark · Aug 17, 2016

qadams said:
I agree that it was extremely annoying in Civ V to discover a valuable natural wonder, and then find that it was one tile away from a city state's borders. Grrr!! Let's hope the map scripts in VI will make that happen a little less often.

And this is where German's bonus against CSs and low warmonger penalty in the early game comes in

Uberfrog · Aug 17, 2016

I really like what they're doing with Natural Wonders this time around. Bigger and more visually spectacular - it will really add to the sense of wonder when exploring the map in our first couple of games.

Alkaid · Aug 17, 2016

They look pretty great, I'm happy with what they're doing with them and the choices are cool too. The boost to adjacent yields sounds like a lot of fun. I can imagine a very satisfying feeling if you find Torres del Paine early game and there's some 4 food grassland tiles or 4 hammer hills around it.

kamex · Aug 17, 2016

I think the problem in V is that some (Barrier Reef, Fuji) where clearly better than others (Old Faithful, Barringer Crater)

MadDjinn · Aug 17, 2016

yeah, these ones both look nicer and do cooler things than in CivV.

though, are we certain that the Cliffs of Dover take up 2 hexes? They are cliffs after all, and therefore an edge of hex feature (vs use of hex).

skyclad · Aug 17, 2016

kamex said:
I think the problem in V is that some (Barrier Reef, Fuji) where clearly better than others (Old Faithful, Barringer Crater)

I think the biggest problem was not that some were too weak, but that el dorado, fountain of youth and that mountain with free promotion were way too good!

Lexicus · Aug 17, 2016

I remember playing as Spain once for poops and giggles, and lo! something like ten tiles away was Cerro de potosi.

Needless to say the rest of the game was a cakewalk.

I would like if the map script made it so that natural wonders were in otherwise-worthless lands. They should be as far away as possible from all civ starting locations, in remote corners of the map to actually give incentive to settle there.

MadDjinn · Aug 17, 2016

skyclad said:
I think the biggest problem was not that some were too weak, but that el dorado, fountain of youth and that mountain with free promotion were way too good!

a few of the natural wonders were so bad that they barely registered as normal hex improvement level.

Depravo · Aug 17, 2016

MadDjinn said:
yeah, these ones both look nicer and do cooler things than in CivV.

though, are we certain that the Cliffs of Dover take up 2 hexes? They are cliffs after all, and therefore an edge of hex feature (vs use of hex).

I'm not sure the Cliffs of Dover were a great choice. They're fine as cliffs go, but there are more impressive chalk cliffs just a few miles up the coast in Dorset. Their main distinction is how they face the Continent across a narrow body of water and thus represent Britain's defiance against teh ev0l or some such thing. If RNGod creates a world where they abut on an ocean thousands of miles wide, or onto a Pangaea inlet, they'd just be cliffs.

Zaarin · Aug 17, 2016

Depravo said:
I'm not sure the Cliffs of Dover were a great choice. They're fine as cliffs go, but there are more impressive chalk cliffs just a few miles up the coast in Dorset. Their main distinction is how they face the Continent across a narrow body of water and thus represent Britain's defiance against teh ev0l or some such thing. If RNGod creates a world where they abut on an ocean thousands of miles wide, or onto a Pangaea inlet, they'd just be cliffs.

Cliffs of Moher would make a cool addition in the future...

ehecatzin · Aug 17, 2016

I really like the aproach to Natural wonders this time around, given the multi tiles, they feel more like unique biomes rather than just a tile with more bonuses.

Piopiotahi look makes me hopeful that we may get canyon natural wonders this time around, Grand Canyon and Copper Canyon would look amazing.

I'm crossing my fingers for more volcanoes as well, it's so odd that Krakatoa is the only one.

edit:also please no more fantasy natural wonders.

Krajzen · Aug 17, 2016

skyclad said:
I think the biggest problem was not that some were too weak, but that el dorado, fountain of youth and that mountain with free promotion were way too good!

MadDjinn said:
a few of the natural wonders were so bad that they barely registered as normal hex improvement level.

I agree with MadJinn here. The terrible quality of some wonders was bigger problem than the OP potential of others.
Grand Mesa - 2 production, 3 gold - good Lord, this atrocity is worse than regular hill with a mining resource. May be terrible even in the ancient age.
Barringer Crater - 2 gold, 3 science - completely terrible unless you happen to get it before the medieval age (when it is just okay)
Old Faithful - 2 science, 3 happy - terrible similarly to crater
Krakatoa - 5 science - other than very often spawning faraway from coast when you couldn't use it, 5 science also stops being impressive around medieval era.

There were few civ5 wonders remaining worthy for the majority of game, but most of them were very mediocre if you didn't just happen to land close enough to them to settle them before medieval age.
I'm happy that natural wonders were buffed in civ6 and now have several other bonuses (national parks, district bonuses, nearby tile yield bonuses, tourism) to remain worth settling longer.

qadams · Aug 17, 2016

In Civ 5, I almost always play with mods that buff the natural wonders, making them more worthwhile to find and to settle near. Because you're right, Krajzen, that otherwise a lot of the current wonders are not exactly wonderful.

In Civ 6, the adjacency bonuses could make many of these natural wonders amazingly valuable, especially the multi-tile beauties. Yeah, baby. That's why I'm hoping the map scripts will allow for a higher percentage to be placed in each game and NOT stick them right next to city states!

Sansa_Stark · Aug 17, 2016

qadams said:
In Civ 6, the adjacency bonuses could make many of these natural wonders amazingly valuable, especially the multi-tile beauties. Yeah, baby. That's why I'm hoping the map scripts will allow for a higher percentage to be placed in each game and NOT stick them right next to city states!

I don't recall any of them being even close to city states from videos, so this seems to be solved.

Multi-tile Natural Wonders

Bohemian

Prince

Deity

Bohemian

Warlord

Bohemian

Prince

Deity

Warlord

Emperor

Deity

Prince

Deity

Deity

Siring Bastards

Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

Emperor

Deity

Bohemian

Prince

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