help winning on deity

Hello,
I am hoping for some help winning on deity. I am able to win my choice of victory on immortal, but when I moved up to deity I am not able to get my game up to the next level. On immortal, I typically get 5-10 techs ahead of everyone, then do what ever I want (military, culture, diplomacy, etc). I can't seem to get ahead of the AI in science no matter what I do. I can win a cheesey diplomatic victory on deity at around turn 280 even though I am behind in science, but that is it. I took notes on my last game first hundred turns hoping someone can point out ways for me to improve. I play YnAEMP, large earth 20 civ 30 CS. Culture is tradition. This game I did build a settler but normally I buy them. My research typically centers around getting resources to sell.

Phase 1) Build 4 cities turns 1-66, “build phase”. Focus on getting coin to build 3 settlers, explore with scouts looking for coin, etc.
Build: Scout, scout, settler (1st settler done at turn 23), archer, archer, caravan, library,
Research: masonry, Pottery, calendar, archery, AH, mining, wheel, writing, trapping, BW, sailing, philosophy
Purchase: settler turn 37,purchase settler turn 51,purchase war chariot, purchase settlers 64, purchase worker, 66
2) Grow while building NC, turns 66-100, focus on getting NC and any growth you can do (granary, water mill)
Build: caravan, war chariot, worker, water mill, water mill, NC complete turn 95
Buy: Library turn 73, war chariot turn 77,library turn 84,library turn 87
Research: Masonry, Construction, optics, drama, hb riding

Turns 100-200 I obsess on getting university, public school, and later research lab in all 4 cities, building and upgrading 2 bows per city for defense.

My current game is at turn 213, I have 363 beakers, 100+ extra gold per turn, I just finished statue of liberty (my first world wonder), and am completing artillery. I am at 60% literacy in demographics, and the leader is at 70%

I just can't seem to get ahead in science no matter what I do.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Playing as Poland solved my deity problems. Egypt probably isn't that great because wonders are so hard to get on deity, especially with 20 civs in the game. Barring that, I'm assuming you got full tradition and rationalism. Do a huge amount of research agreements, denounce the world jerk to get lots of friends, and try to bribe people in to declaring war with others, keep the world in a state of constant fright. If you're behind, passing scholars in residence can help, but I haven't gotten ahead using the bonuses from that ever.

In the end though, you're probably better than I am at this game, and I'm guessing this info isn't too useful to you. Good luck with getting past deity, doing this will only get substantially harder when the patch finally gets released for real.

Sounds like your putting a bit too much hammers and tech into military stuff. If you are trying to get ahead tech wise, you need to learn to use fewer units more effectively. If you are going to spend hammers and beakers on military, then you need to go put them to use not let them gather dust.
T95 for NC is fine, but you can try to shave that down to T85. Skipping BW should speed things up by 6ish turns, having to research masonry always slows things though.
I pretty much do Pottery, lux tech, writing, expo lux tech (if needed), then right to phylo, then direct to CS, then education. Machinery on the way to printing press. I don't do dynamite until the push to plastics. This is all assuming a science focus game, if going domination, I just head right to dynamite and try kill everyone before they get flight

joshua43214 said:

Sounds like your putting a bit too much hammers and tech into military stuff. If you are trying to get ahead tech wise, you need to learn to use fewer units more effectively. If you are going to spend hammers and beakers on military, then you need to go put them to use not let them gather dust.
T95 for NC is fine, but you can try to shave that down to T85. Skipping BW should speed things up by 6ish turns, having to research masonry always slows things though.
I pretty much do Pottery, lux tech, writing, expo lux tech (if needed), then right to phylo, then direct to CS, then education. Machinery on the way to printing press. I don't do dynamite until the push to plastics. This is all assuming a science focus game, if going domination, I just head right to dynamite and try kill everyone before they get flight

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thanks for your note. Typically I am not research constrained in the first 100 turns. I am typically waiting on coin to buy settlers, so I do research to get stuff to sell. That is why I did masonry (to sell marble), and BW to sell iron. If it ain't moving, I sell it.

I like your point on buying too much military. That was what I did on lower difficulties, only one bow per city for defense. The AIs seem much more aggressive on deity, and the only way I have been able to keep them from attacking is by keeping a strong defense, thus 2 bows per city. You are right that they consume resources and slow me down. I would appreciate any suggestions to keep the AI from attacking, other than building a defense.

I would love to learn to do a dominion game on deity. I get really bored, but like you pointed out spending coin or hammer on units takes away from science. On lower difficulties I would focus on science until I got 5-10 techs ahead, then build two or three armies each army composed of 4 ranged, 2 melee, and two cavalry. But I can't seem to figure out how to do that on deity, because I can't ever get ahead on science and you start out so far behind the AIs.

redwings1340 said:

Playing as Poland solved my deity problems. Egypt probably isn't that great because wonders are so hard to get on deity, especially with 20 civs in the game. Barring that, I'm assuming you got full tradition and rationalism. Do a huge amount of research agreements, denounce the world jerk to get lots of friends, and try to bribe people in to declaring war with others, keep the world in a state of constant fright. If you're behind, passing scholars in residence can help, but I haven't gotten ahead using the bonuses from that ever.

In the end though, you're probably better than I am at this game, and I'm guessing this info isn't too useful to you. Good luck with getting past deity, doing this will only get substantially harder when the patch finally gets released for real.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I have seen your post on quest for deity. It looks like you are encountering a lot of the same problems I am. I typically do random, for variety. I am anxious to try babylon, it seems like their science bonus would really help on deity level. I will give Poland a try.

If u dont build military and research atleast construction for composite bowmen you are asking for a DOW and then restarting. You can often tell how likely it is for you to get declared on because of the civilizations and their distance from your lands but i think some contingency is a good idea. A few of my wins are from defense wars that got turned offensive with composite bowmen

txgregory said:

thanks for your note. Typically I am not research constrained in the first 100 turns. I am typically waiting on coin to buy settlers, so I do research to get stuff to sell. That is why I did masonry (to sell marble), and BW to sell iron. If it ain't moving, I sell it.

I like your point on buying too much military. That was what I did on lower difficulties, only one bow per city for defense. The AIs seem much more aggressive on deity, and the only way I have been able to keep them from attacking is by keeping a strong defense, thus 2 bows per city. You are right that they consume resources and slow me down. I would appreciate any suggestions to keep the AI from attacking, other than building a defense.

I would love to learn to do a dominion game on deity. I get really bored, but like you pointed out spending coin or hammer on units takes away from science. On lower difficulties I would focus on science until I got 5-10 techs ahead, then build two or three armies each army composed of 4 ranged, 2 melee, and two cavalry. But I can't seem to figure out how to do that on deity, because I can't ever get ahead on science and you start out so far behind the AIs.

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Instead of buying military directly, maybe you can get some militaristic city states as allies? It costs a little bit of extra money, but will also give you some additional luxury resources and improve your happiness a bit. On emperor I can get by on an army pretty well with one nearby militaristic city state ally for the entire game. On deity you probably need a bit more than just that and will still need to get some early composite bowmen, but it could be a way to get a military without falling as far behind. If you can choose a militaristic city state that gives a good UU, then that's even better!

Even in the Beta patch with increased AI aggression I do not get DoW'd very often. In my experience, the thing that leads to early DoW's the most is city placement. When I started being willing to settle a bit farther away from the AI so that my new resource is in my 2 or 3 ring on defensible positions, nearly all my early DoW's vanished.
Indirectly, selling embassies also leads to early DoW's since the AI seems to treat your cap as a magnet for settlers.

I survived all the insanity of G&K building only 3 or 4 range units and a pike for defense, even in the Fall Patch the AI's are docile by comparison.

Sometimes you just get early DoW's and there is nothing you can do to stop the Ottomans or Attila from trucking an army over, but the AI still sucks at combat, and it is still painfully easy to destroy their military with a small defensive army provided you settled well.