Solution for faster game, more civ's, bigger maps
- Thread starter anastazjasz
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i agree, i want to make a "Lite" version but i know that will take me about 2 years to do BY MYSELF??
+1 here
C2C is just too much in some areas like who needs over 920 Techs or 3200 Buildings. Many of the new features are unfinished and without proper AI code.
I much rather have a less complicated but playable mod with a decent AI.
I do. Again what made c2c into what is is, is that it expands on the vanilla civ4 experience. If I want a stripped down civ I can play civ5 or civ6. I dont play civ to mappaint. There are better games for that.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
+1 here
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
+1 here
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
ditto
Clearly that's the superior choice, but hey. Literally anybody can ram stuff into the XML and generate tonnes of content, but if it's unfinished, unbalanced or the AI is just not there, they might as well not have bothered. But we can't take away player "options", now can we?
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Instead of complaining why not go and build your own mod?
Or work with SO on a C2C lite as has been suggested. I wouldn't be offended by that. I mean, that's basically how I see AND.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
While I have some agreement here I must point out that AND went to far in their strip down. It's not near impho the mod it was 3 years ago. That's why I don't play it any more.
The real point here is that the snowball effect of C2C is winding down. The adding of content has reached the point that it can't be properly maintained anymore. The momentum of the mod is slowing and slowing down fast. If some reduction and simplification isn't done soon this mod will hit it's inertia point fast and hard. It's already evident that things have went too far for too long.
T-brd you know in your heart that you can not keep up the pace and the content you were doing. So holding on to the false idea that there would be major outcry if the 2 longest game speeds for this mod were eliminated or just cut back to a more reasonable length is false. Same for trimming a few techs out too.
You have 4 major projects that you started that has added tons of content but are not realistically finished. And realistically will not be finished either. Just like other modders you will and have bogged down. It happened to Hydro, Koshling, AIAndy, Vokarya, Eldrin, ls612, and so many others. It's happening right now to you. The continued adding has to stop for awhile. And the effort to maintain is a big enough job in and of itself to cause ppl to stop modding now too. Clean up and trimming is in order and that will take major effort. But even that might not get done. The C2C balloon has lost it's air.
To be honest I feel that I could be doing more but it will just get run over or criticized because it does not follow some chart to the letter. Or some proposed future project will supersede what I would get down even if that project never comes about. So I've done little to nothing since the Siege war and Mil unit strength blow up over what adjustments I did there. I feel that my hands have been tied to help balance this mod because I didn't spend days writing tomes here on the board about the changes. When in fact those very changes I did I've posted about for years!
There is so much more that I want to say but it's all tangent to this theme and thread.
@alberts2,
Quote:
Originally Posted by strategyonly View Post
i agree, i want to make a "Lite" version but i know that will take me about 2 years to do BY MYSELF??
"+1 here"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyalha View Post
While I can understand the sentmiment I personally would not be interested in that. What makes c2c appealing is the complexity it offers, stripping that away in any way shape or form would hurt it imho.
"C2C is just too much in some areas like who needs over 920 Techs or 3200 Buildings. Many of the new features are unfinished and without proper AI code.
I much rather have a less complicated but playable mod with a decent AI."
This is easy to say but are you willing to help make it happen? Are you still a C2C modder or now just a C2C player critic like I used to be? And how Arakhor is now?
JosEPh
I'm not interested in making my own mod though. I certainly don't have nearly enough time or desire for Civ IV to do that. What I do want to do is play a mod which has interesting Stone Age mechanics (El Triturador's Stone Age mod is still one of my favourites, even though it no longer runs properly after all these years).
I still play AND when I do play Civ IV, but yes, I think they could have done with removing less things overall. It still does have a whole shedload more content than vanilla BtS, plus it runs well and Vokarya & crew have nearly finished their work on it. That's why I still play AND - to have a RoM-family game that I can actually play with any reliability beyond the Renaissance (i.e. a game I can realistically finish).
This is easy to say but are you willing to help make it happen? Are you still a C2C modder or now just a C2C player critic like I used to be? And how Arakhor is now?
JosEPh
Just removing stuff from C2C would be a nightmare and the same goes for really fixing all it's bugs. For me it is too complex in many ways.
I recently stumbled upon K-MOD and that is basically what vanilla Bts should have been. It is impressive how much fun one can have playing it because of all the optimizations. You suddenly see the AI doing all kinds of things it isn't able to do in C2C. And it's fast you can even play complete games using the Debug dll without being bored because of the turn times.
But even after all the work Karadoc did it's still not perfect because there are still some bugs and ways to improve the AI. I can't imagine how much time would be needed to even reach that state with C2C. So it would make sense to just take K-MOD fix the known bugs and start building C2C-Lite. That way it would have a solid foundation and that is something C2C would have needed.
But that doesn't have a high priority right now because I can't risk spending too much time on it and burning myself out.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
This is where the prehistoric era for C2C came from.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I believe i have almost all the old games on my now NOT used PC, currently i have 3 PC's 1 XP, 1 Win 7, and now the new 1 Win 10.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I did have but lost both my main hard drive and my back up in the same month 
Still trying too recover stuff. I even had some stuff from before the time the hacker destroyed the civfanatics databases - all gone now.
Still trying too recover stuff. I even had some stuff from before the time the hacker destroyed the civfanatics databases - all gone now.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
As an outsider I see C2C rather an Encyclopedia than a mod.
I like to lunch it time to time to hunt for some cool ideas or good art for my AND modmod. But to play it...
I like the prehistoric era, but the later eras are too slow, too much.
Overall the whole game grow just grow too big. You have good ideas, talented modders, but the the shell - Civ4 itself - is just too tight for you.
Maybe if it was the prehistoric era from C2C and the rest from AND2 I'd rather play it. But still, there are too many features that I find strange the least.
I like to lunch it time to time to hunt for some cool ideas or good art for my AND modmod. But to play it...
I like the prehistoric era, but the later eras are too slow, too much.
Overall the whole game grow just grow too big. You have good ideas, talented modders, but the the shell - Civ4 itself - is just too tight for you.
Maybe if it was the prehistoric era from C2C and the rest from AND2 I'd rather play it. But still, there are too many features that I find strange the least.
That would definitely be the best of both worlds. Even the properties system would probably do nicely in AND2, if it was properly balanced and didn't have sucky options.
That is basically what I had in mind. This would end up with ~400 Techs and that should be enough. It would reduce the amount of units, buildings and other stuff to 50% of what C2C has now and that alone would help alot with memory usage and turn times. It could even be possible to finish games
that would be like a revolution for C2C.But I wouldn't take AND and just add the prehistoric Era because sadly it has lots of issues and unfinished stuff.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Sogroon, don't use the longer game speeds to play C2C, nor the GEM type maps. And don't use REV it's still too much like the broken version from RoM v2.92. Large map with default AI # on Epic will give you a good game with out really long turn times at End of Turn wait in the later Eras. But don't expect to reach an Era past Modern If you are playing Mastery or Conquest Victory settings and with out much patience and restraint from killing off your rivals.
I wish Mastery Victory had never been introduced by Afforess and then picked up by the C2C Modders. It's fine for regular BtS Game speeds but not for longer running Mods like AND and especially C2C imhpo.
But hey you still like AND in it's current state and I can't stand to play it any more.
Especially after they ripped out what I had put in years ago. Jungle camps are a farce now. And is there even a stripped down, gutted version of JC in AND now? And is the Ancient era still as dry as a bone for play and flavor? JosEPh
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
But hey you still like AND in it's current state and I can't stand to play it any more.
JosEPh
Dang Joe, tell it like it is, i like that about u
