Trolled by Disease

Some interesting starts I've had recently, these are all the starts where I was somehow in contact with Wetlands:

Game 1 - I was trying to max my Capital at all costs, so I planned to quickly settle a second city and then have it send Settlers back to rejoin my Capital when the food-box gets bigger at size 7+. The second City was on a Floodplain. One turn before the second city produced its first Settler... Disease, back to size 1.

Game 2 - I had a lovely start position for my Capital, rivers and food aplenty. However, in my joy I failed to spot one corner of the now expanded borders caught the corner square of a right-angled Floodplain. Even though no citizens had worked that square and no Units or Workers had set foot there, I got the message... disease has struck... I was one turn from producing my first Settler.

Game 3 - As above, only this time I knew quite well I had some Floodplains in borders. I thought I'd be more mature and just play on if I got 'a bit of bad luck'. As I suspected, Disease upon reaching size 3, back to size 1. I waited until my Capital was back to size 3 and just about to provide a Settler... and... you've guessed it... twice in a row. Now, I know random is random, but... Lol.

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Also, and by-the-way, I've got some great screenshots for the screenshot thread re: those Units the AI dumps on your island and then forgets about them, and I'm positive my screenies will raise a few eyebrows! Even amongst the experts. Stay tuned!

Switching to worker may save some trouble as this will save a population lost. That is assuming that the worker is finished before the desease hits the second time.

Buttercup said:

Some interesting starts I've had recently, these are all the starts where I was somehow in contact with Wetlands:

Game 1 *snip* One turn before the second city produced its first Settler... Disease, back to size 1.

Game 2 *snip* disease has struck... I was one turn from producing my first Settler.

Game 3 *snip* Disease upon reaching size 3, back to size 1. I waited until my Capital was back to size 3 and just about to provide a Settler... and... you've guessed it... twice in a row

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The more of your posts I read, the better I'm convinced that you have at some point seriously offended your pRN-God. Also that said God is an Old Testament Fire-and-Brimstone-Burn-Sinners-for-All-Eternity-type, rather than a namby-pamby New Testament Turn-the-Other-Cheek-Forgive-and-Forget-type...

I was trying to max my Capital at all costs, so I planned to quickly settle a second city and then have it send Settlers back to rejoin my Capital when the food-box gets bigger at size 7+

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Got one question about the above -- not criticism, not 'assistance' just curious: Why build Settlers to add back to your Cap (or any Pop7+ city), rather than Workers? Was it just because your Settler-Factory was growing so fast...?

Because Settlers are more useful should the Capital reach close to size 12 unaided. It depends on what the Capital's start is like, how much food it's producing and whether Pyramids has been built yet, combined with the equivalent amount of food available to the second city. But, yes, there would be no problem in converting to Workers, but I don't see how waiting for size 3 and getting to 2.9 then dropping back to one would make any difference if you were producing Workers instead of Settlers. By hanging out for size 3 you hedge your potential growth alongside Science by having those extra turns at 2 citizens, which can make a difference in the early stages of learning Masonry/Bronze Working/Writing. If you just popped Workers at size 2 then you'd be a bit slower in your economy, a classic double edged sword. You might argue the Worker will produce the Gold in the Capital, but by maxing the Capital too quick you just run your lux-slider up, cancelling out the benefit in the Science department. Maxing Production isn't maxed if you haven't got to the Techs you need to put the maximised production to use. But, mainly, it gives me the option to actually settle the Settler if I feel it's beneficial, such as an exploring Warrior discovering a much tastier piece of land or a Luxury nearby, for example.

But, yes, there would be no problem in converting to Workers, but I don't see how waiting for size 3 and getting to 2.9 then dropping back to one would make any difference if you were producing Workers instead of Settlers.

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I think it would depend on at what size is the city's neg. pop. spawn generation most efficient? Can a size 2 pop out 2 workers faster than a size 1-2 pop out a settler ? My experience is that there can be a significant difference. Of course, if generating workers, I would expect that you would not be letting the city drop to size 1.

Exactly.

tjs282 said:

The more of your posts I read, the better I'm convinced that you have at some point seriously offended your pRN-God. Also that said God is an Old Testament Fire-and-Brimstone-Burn-Sinners-for-All-Eternity-type, rather than a namby-pamby New Testament Turn-the-Other-Cheek-Forgive-and-Forget-type...

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You have no idea! Lol. I tried to make a thread about all the 'designed' irritations once, but I got shouted down by the 'it's all random, there's no deliberate irritation going on' posse. But we all know that if you send a Settler to a sweet spot your wandering Scout found 20 turns ago then when you get there the exact spot is settled by a teeming hoard inside a new Barb hut

Buttercup said:

But we all know that if you send a Settler to a sweet spot your wandering Scout found 20 turns ago then when you get there the exact spot is settled by a teeming hoard inside a new Barb hut

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But but but... surely that only happens if your pRN-God knows where you're going?!

I lost an unguarded Settler that way, a couple of games back -- a Barb-Hut spawned right on the Horse-Hill I wanted, and then sent out a cAxe (apt name) once my Settler was 2T away from the nearest city...

So instead of using GoTos, now I keep the God guessing by only moving to the limit of my MP each turn...

Is having a floodplain within the BFC (or even only touching the BFC) enough to trigger disease? So far I thought that one of the town's citizens actually needs to work the floodplain tile, in order to have any risk of floodplain disease?!

Buttercup said:

You have no idea! Lol. I tried to make a thread about all the 'designed' irritations once, but I got shouted down by the 'it's all random, there's no deliberate irritation going on' posse. But we all know that if you send a Settler to a sweet spot your wandering Scout found 20 turns ago then when you get there the exact spot is settled by a teeming hoard inside a new Barb hut

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I am one of those that believe random is not so random, but without the source code, it is hard to prove. I also have a suspicion that the AI will mimic your style of play, but I cannot prove that either.

timerover51 said:

I am one of those that believe random is not so random, but without the source code, it is hard to prove. I also have a suspicion that the AI will mimic your style of play, but I cannot prove that either.

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Something like this would be very difficult to program. And considering how very little effort Firaxis put into the "artificial intelligence" algorithms of Civ3, I think it is very unlikely they did something like the above...

Ah, Lanzelot, Lanzelot... you seem to forget or fail to believe that on every game's development team there is always one evil sadomasochistic developer that dedicates his/her life to destroying the dreams of the players.

I am quite definitely convinced that the game has a way of spawning a barbarian camp on *exactly* the same tile you plan on founding a city on.

And that the game teleports AI civ settlers to places you plan on settling, and they get there 2 turns before your settler.

Volcanoes won't erupt unless you have a stack of your troops moving by.

Diseases only strike settler factories.

You never hit an invis sub unless its your ally's.

*I* suspect that there is, in fact, a center somewhere where Civ employees sit around monitoring games being played and have buttons they can press to mess with us. And if we cry or smash our mouse then they get bonuses in their pay checks.

Lmao ^

It shouldnt be that hard to program.

>Settler /control+alt+del.exe [human player]

I avoid flood plain starts like the plague.

I avoid flood plain starts like the plague.

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I love 'em. As long as there is wheat and a few hills.

If the troops at Firaxis can program the AI to know exactly where all resources are going to appear, so that the AI can settle on a Flood Plain precisely between two of my Fish Ponds that appear only with Engineering, and do this long before engineering, I do not see why they cannot play with the Random Number Generator and a few other things.

It would be more precise to say that they cannot programm AI to not see resources they donnot have they required tech for. This is not a sign of competence, it is a sign of the lack of it.

timerover51 said:

I do not see why they cannot play with the Random Number Generator and a few other things.

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Yes, that would not be difficult and is well possible. (For example, something I experience in 99% of the cases when I capture an enemy city, even when attacking spearman with Cavalry: all defenders fall easily/effortlessly, but the very last defender has the 9 lifes of a cat and takes at least one Cav with him, sometimes even 2. There must be some rule programmed in like "if last unit in city, then increase defense bonus by 200%"...)
What I have been talking about, are the more advanced things like "determine the style of the player by observing his actions and then try to mimic him". Or "determine by the actions of the player, at which point he is going to settle which locations and then make sure to produce a settler that will get there 1 turn faster"...

Something like that would be highly advanced computer science, and would cost too much considering that this is just a game they want to make a quick buck with... Not even a bored genius intern would be able to develop this within the available time...

justanick said:

It would be more precise to say that they cannot programm AI to not see resources they donnot have they required tech for. This is not a sign of competence, it is a sign of the lack of it.

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Exactly!
Like the fact that the AI can see the entire map (including the location of all your units) right from the start. They were probably too lazy to implement a "separate map" for every AI, so they just use the "total map" for each AI and only have a restricted map for the human player.

Lanzelot said:

Exactly!
Like the fact that the AI can see the entire map (including the location of all your units) right from the start. They were probably too lazy to implement a "separate map" for every AI, so they just use the "total map" for each AI and only have a restricted map for the human player.

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Totally unfair! I demand justice for the human player!! Justice!!!