G-Minor CV

Pretty amazing to me. By turn 81 you have 4 huge cities compared to my 3 small cities by turn 100 and are at education by turn 81 when I'm just researching theology at turn 100.

Seems like magic to me and I have no idea how you guys do it. Guess I'm going to start another game, read the forums, and see if I can figure out how you guys break the game so easily
 
Pretty amazing to me. By turn 81 you have 4 huge cities compared to my 3 small cities by turn 100 and are at education by turn 81 when I'm just researching theology at turn 100.

Seems like magic to me and I have no idea how you guys do it. Guess I'm going to start another game, read the forums, and see if I can figure out how you guys break the game so easily
Vadalaz is awesome but don't get too discouraged by his screenshot. He rolled an insane Spain start: 3 wonders in an 8 tile radius means he had 1500 gold in the first 10 turns or so from Spain's unique ability. If you can buy settlers that early and play very well, you are pretty much guaranteed to have great cities by T100- being on Warlord level helps so happiness is not too huge an issue and Spain gets double benefits from working the wonder tiles too. You are probably not going to match that screenshot without Spain [emoji6] .

That being said, you should probably be looking to get 4 cities up by T100 if possible and grow like heck. I chose Seas in my couple map roll dabblings trying to get a capital I can run cargo ships too.

@vadalaz - great job utilizing the wonder bounty. Looks like an incredible empire. Good luck with the Cromagnus special! (getting AIs to conquer another AIs capital, for those unfamiliar) I have never done it either. If chuck is reading this, maybe he can chime in with his experience.

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What's the difference between cargo ships and caravans?
Cargo ships send double the food or hammers in internal trade routes and make more money (double?) in external trade routes.

If you want to grow a city as fast as possible, cargo ships sending food via internal trade routes from cities with granaries is the best way to go. Even early in the game, 1 cargo ship sends 8 food per turn, more than Hanging Gardens will get you. Get 2-3 cargo ships running to your capital and that's 16-24 food/turn early, more late. Or sending food cargo ships to your expansion cities will get their population up very quickly if need be. Of course, you almost always have to build a trireme or 2 first to protect your cargo ships from barbarian ships. Even 1 "dark" unseen hex on the coast of your sea can generate a barbarian camp which will spit out ships sooner rather than later!
I think barbarian ships wiping out multiple trade routes in one turn is a common source of rage-quitting☺.

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Ok cool so growth is of paramount importance. BTW getting a NW roll with Spain on this map setting (I have 3 billion years, lakes, temperate) took me like an hour of rerolling to find one on my first turn that I could play (I found Fiji but my capitol is not next to it like I would have hoped). I did find the Barrenger Crater once but I started in Tundra so I said no to that start. I only played a few turns but I'm taking much more extensive notes on this one than on my first one so that I will have a big spoiler tag when I reach t100. Also have raging barbs turned on + ai civs are vienna, austria, huns, mongolia, and gandhi with the hope that gandhi will be over-run and allow me to liberate him for votes. I posted my start for pointers. More of a learning experience for me personally.

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So I rerolled for a long time until I got this start.
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Obviously not a great start but at this point I was desperate. I have one luxury resource (Salt) and a good production oriented city. I then settle in place and begin work on a scout
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I then pick pottery as my first tech in order to get shrines and writing
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I then still on turn one buy a scout
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Turn 2 I located Zurich (Merchantile CS). Southeast of my city
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and on turn 4 I found Bratislava (Cultured CS) south of Fiji.
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On turn 7 my second scout has been completed and I begin work on a monument to get Honor opener faster
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. That's really all I played today because then my brother wanted to play against a friend online so I had to get off my steam account. My plan is to get an army and destroy as many barbs as I can for the CSs as well as for culture, work my way as fast as I can through Tradition, Patronage, and Rationalism and if necessary eliminate a few civs (but only if I think that Gandhi will be wiped out) Thanks for the feedback I know it's only 7 turns...
 
Ok cool so growth is of paramount importance. BTW getting a NW roll with Spain on this map setting (I have 3 billion years, lakes, temperate) took me like an hour of rerolling to find one on my first turn that I could play (I found Fiji but my capitol is not next to it like I would have hoped). I did find the Barrenger Crater once but I started in Tundra so I said no to that start. I only played a few turns but I'm taking much more extensive notes on this one than on my first one so that I will have a big spoiler tag when I reach t100. Also have raging barbs turned on + ai civs are vienna, austria, huns, mongolia, and gandhi with the hope that gandhi will be over-run and allow me to liberate him for votes. I posted my start for pointers. More of a learning experience for me personally.

So I rerolled for a long time until I got this start....

Solid Start!

Salt = good; upgrades to the best luxury tile in the game!
Wonder found immediately as Spain = good
getting scouts out there asap to find other wonders/civs etc = good

Only 2 suggestions, 1 with an eye toward future games, and 1 for the coming turns of this game.

-- I would have spent my turn 0 moving my settler to the forested hill to the northeast next to the lake. Then I would have founded my cap there. Why? Founding on plains cost you a hammer/turn in your capital and some food up front at least--> Founding on hills get you 1 more hammer in your capital, and your cap gets an automatic 2 food there. Hills as tiles only irrigate to 1 food, and then 2 food after civil service, while plains irrigate to 2 food and then 3 after Civil Service. Also, it puts you ADJACENT to the salt at the start of the game, so the first tiles you work are 2 food, 1 hammer, 1 gold, as opposed to whatever you are working now. No waiting for your borders to grow.
Yes, it costs you 1 game turn to make that initial move, but I think the better placement is well worth it.

-- Have a plan now for the 348 gold left in your bank. Getting that money as Spain so early in the game is definitely great; it is REALLY great only if you leverage it as early as possible to get a snowball effect of growth etc. Are you saving it for a Settler, after you get to 500 gold again through meeting CSes or finding another wonder? Solid. Are you going to buy a worker to get the salt mined and land improved asap? Also solid. Think about researching mining soon with that salt in mind. Are you waiting to see if an AI civ is nearby so you can conquer its cap asap to join your empire? Then buying an archer if so, to speed the conquest and get that second city via conquest? OK. Simply saving it up for buying universities when you hit Education? OK. Whatever your plan is, make your choices with that plan in mind.

-- A 3rd point: If you are taking notes, you really should track how many barbarians you kill throughout the game (and for about how much culture if you do open Honor) I know you have raging barbarians on, but even with that I do not think you will kill enough barbarians to make up for the last Rationalism policy you need. Yes, you will get a couple early policies a bitt earlier, but not enough to make a difference I think. The cost of the Honor Opener balloons the costs of all future policies. The later ones will come later for sure. It is good to see the barb camps early to get troops there, and then kill them quickly once they become CS quests, but I think that is overkill on this small map and at Warlord. I did a really random runthrough as Babylon up until Printing Press just to get a feel for the settings, and I had half or more of the CSes allied without really trying hard. "Want a trade route? Ok. Want a luxury I am about to improve with my worker in a few turns? Sure. Gee, I won every quest for culture/tech/faith too." Also, the AIs place very low priority on killing barbarian camps at this level, so there is little danger of you missing out on a barb camp CS quest if you pay attention.... I am actually a pretty big fan of opening Honor in the right circumstances, but I don't think this gauntlet has those. I think it will only serve to delay the later policies you need. But if you feel good about opening Honor, go for it. It would be good to track your number of barbarian kills and then the culture you need for your last Rationalism policy paid for to see if you come close, for future reference.

Good luck! It is not a bad start at all. Salt is the bomb, and an early wonder like that as Spain is nice. Look forward to seeing how your game progresses. Some of us, like Bleidraner in particular, have noted how a lot of our enjoyment of the game comes from constantly learning new things and approaches, even after many hours of play. I feel I am always learning and adjusting my approach. For one, I am curious to see if your plan of India getting overrun can work. I'm not sure if the Huns are aggressive enough on Warlord level to take capitals well, but it is worth a shot, and I did not think of trying that.
 
BTW getting a NW roll with Spain on this map setting (I have 3 billion years, lakes, temperate) took me like an hour of rerolling to find one on my first turn that I could play (I found Fiji but my capitol is not next to it like I would have hoped).
You can keep exploring if things don't look great on the first turn. It's fine to settle on turn 4 if the location is worth it, and a wonder-capital as Spain definitely is.

I'm on turn 109, and I'm wondering whether I should finish researching PP now or not. T110 PP is a T158 victory if all goes well, which is really tempting. I'm not sure I can get everything done in time though, it's such a rush. Still, the Cromagnus special might not even work and then I'd regret delaying PP... I think I'll check that old Germany/Settler diplo gauntlet to see how my current science rate compares to those games.
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Nice Spain start, that might be a good contender. Turn 85 Education is fantastic on Standard speed. I think I might not have time to give this one a go since I am traveling a lot this month.
 
Turn 157(158) victory, it was really close, but I got it. :)

Attila turned out to be a pretty bad pick, he wouldn't sell me open borders, so I couldn't gift him a melee unit. First I tried to get Attila to attack Sejong, but he never sent any units his way, then I bribed William and he didn't do anything either, despite having a couple of warriors right there... Ended up settling a city next to Gandhi, then bought a tile one turn away from his capital, put a rifleman there, bought open borders from William, then gifted him the city and the unit. Thankfully he did take out Gandhi. :rolleyes:
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It required 32 votes to win on a map with 8 CSs. Without Globalization you can get 26 in one cycle and 28 in two... So you *have* to either reach Globalization and leave 4 AIs alive or use the liberation tactics here.
 
A nice benchmark for sure. It will be tough to match with any civ.

Nicely done!
 
Turn 157(158) victory, it was really close, but I got it. :)

Attila turned out to be a pretty bad pick, he wouldn't sell me open borders, so I couldn't gift him a melee unit. First I tried to get Attila to attack Sejong, but he never sent any units his way, then I bribed William and he didn't do anything either, despite having a couple of warriors right there... Ended up settling a city next to Gandhi, then bought a tile one turn away from his capital, put a rifleman there, bought open borders from William, then gifted him the city and the unit. Thankfully he did take out Gandhi. :rolleyes:
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It required 32 votes to win on a map with 8 CSs. Without Globalization you can get 26 in one cycle and 28 in two... So you *have* to either reach Globalization and leave 4 AIs alive or use the liberation tactics here.

Wow. Just Wow. My aztec games weren't coming anywhere close to that. I played 80 turns on small lakes with 5 billion years of hot weather and wet rainfall, and got an amazing petra capital but wasn't even to theology yet. I think there is potential, but not like rolling a proper spain map. Can you imagine getting Great barrier Reef, Solomon's mines, and lake victoria on this map with spain? Is it even possible I wonder?
 
@shoshonte

I agree with everything that Zenmaster said.

Another point I would make is that with a small map and Spain, it is not necessary to scout for a NW with your initial settler. Built 2 scouts right away, and search far and wide with your warrior and 2x scouts. You are likely to find at least 2 NW within spitting distance where you can found your expansion cities. If you are the first to discover, you will also get enough gold to buy a settler for the city.
 
I played approximately 15 more turns before dinner. I'm going to put my writeup under this spoiler tag. I'm going to discuss my plans and what I'm trying to do and learn as much as I can through this game.

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Turn 7: Switched Madrid's production to a Warrior to help my barb clearing enterprises. Turn 8: Popped hut for 75 gold bringing my total to 433 (+2gpt. Madrid has also grown to size 2 so I use 50 of the gold from the hut to buy the salt tile north of Madrid (2f1h1g). I then work that tile as well as the lake (2f)
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Turn 9: Completed Pottery Began Research on Archery for barb hunting (8 turns) Found my first barbarian camp and also Wellington (Maritime CS) to the south.
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I also discovered Bogota (Cultured CS) to the west
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Turn 10: Pop a ruin that gives me Animal Husbandry. I have also found Austria to the east (w/2 gems so maybe conquer?)
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Turn 13: Now while I'm exploring I find a barb puppy guarding a ruin.
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So I attempt to juke it to the south but then luckily for me I find Mt. Kailesh... only to discover that I am the second civilization to have found it :mad:
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However this brings me up to 511g so I buy my first settler. Turn 14: Found Attila to the east under Vienna
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Turn 15: Venice met me with one of those boosted warriors turned spearman. I return with my scout to pop the ruin only to find that the barb has returned to its post of guarding the ruin :mad:
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I retreat to wait on a nearby hill for the barb to move. My second warrior is also finished at this time and I decide to build a granary. I plan on using gold to purchase troops and feel that I can find a pantheon w/o a shrine by finding a NW + religious cs so I prioritize growth. Turn 16: The barbarian moves away so I pop the hut... for 70 gold so that was a good score for me. Also run into Genghis this turn. Turn 17: Discover Archery. Begin to tech writing for obvious reasons. Turn 18: My Settler with the protection of my two warriors founds a city next to Mt.Fiji. Food may be an issue but there is fresh water nearby so I have hope. Not sure how useful Observatories are in diplomacy games but I guess I'll find out.
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Bratislava also has one of those help from invasion quests so I'm going to do that next.
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Turn 20: Finally had enough culture for my first SP. I consistently picked Honor opener because of the settings I'm playing. A monument build instead of warrior would have got it 3 turns faster but I was hoping for a culture ruin + I'm going to get a free monument from Tradition anyways so I think the gold my warrior produces is worth the slightly longer time to get SPs Turn 22: Now know where all civs are located except Gandhi who I have not even met yet.
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I also got trapping from a goody hut this turn! Turn 23: Cleared that first barb hut I found and saved the game. Have killed a total of 3 barbs since Honor opener and there are 2 more that will die near Madrid (didn't shoot them for a while cuz I was waiting for Honor). My goal is pretty simple: War-monger through barbs and Ai and hopefully manage to get Gandhi wiped out after which I shall liberate him and win. If there are any hints or suggestions that I'm missing, those would be greatly appreciated.
 
My first attempt (not Spain) resulted in a turn 193 victory. I spread out to four cities ASAP (about turn 60-65 IIRC) and didn't finish NC unitl around turn 100. I think I had Education on about turn 97. It was a 2 vote cycle win with Diplomats to put me over the top. I am playing a few trial games with civs which I need for League of Nations for VVV before trying for a run with either Babylon or Spain.
 
@Vadalaz - great job! Way to get the Cromagnus special to work. Congrats on an assured gold medal game [emoji4]

@Mesix - very nice 2 cycle win w/o Babylon or Spain! Excellent finish time for 2 cycles.

@Shoshonte - Looks like you are doing well! Very interesting game so far. Never hurts to have early units out there - only good things can happen with them. Agree 100% with going units and no monument. ?s you face now are - when and how to expand to 4 cities and get up your National College. If you are going for Great Library, that timing needs to be factored in too. Hope you can find the other wonders soon. Good luck!

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Have been very busy, so no time to get a game of this in yet.

Request for the future: All "any civ" gauntlets should definitely be Majors!
Most of the fun of them is trying different civs and half a month gives little time to do that.

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Have been very busy, so no time to get a game of this in yet.

Request for the future: All "any civ" gauntlets should definitely be Majors!
Most of the fun of them is trying different civs and half a month gives little time to do that.

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I agree with this sentiment. Perhaps this minor can be extended to 6 weeks like the last one?
 
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