God do I hate that argument, if its all about Europe why the hell do you include the rest of the world? Why not just have Europe, and the ROTW interactions contained entirely within pop-ups? It's not like anything would be lost considering how one-dimensional and characterless the ROTW is anyway. Keeping the ROTW is basically just letting Europe have a free punching bag the entire game, cause everyone knows this is the age that YURP#1 and dominated the world with their superior metallurgy and armies.
Europa Universalis IV
- Thread starter MoreEpicThanYou
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God do I hate that argument, if its all about Europe why the hell do you include the rest of the world? Why not just have Europe, and the ROTW interactions contained entirely within pop-ups? It's not like anything would be lost considering how one-dimensional and characterless the ROTW is anyway. Keeping the ROTW is basically just letting Europe have a free punching bag the entire game, cause everyone knows this is the age that YURP#1 and dominated the world with their superior metallurgy and armies.
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
I have no problems with the raising of the Americas latitude-wise, it doesn't really affect gameplay too much and the reason is understandable. But the oversized Europe just makes no sense from any standpoint other than highlighting the blatant Eurocentrism.
My view on this is that if you're going to go through the effort of making such a nice looking map, at least do it right, without having to resort to massively distorting continents to get more detail in something that's already packed compared to the underdone rest of the world.
EU was named after a mid-90s French board game (which EU1 was the PC adaptation of). It has nothing to do with Paradox's design, which by this point has next to no trace of the original board game from what I know. So please don't bring up the name as an argument.
My view on this is that if you're going to go through the effort of making such a nice looking map, at least do it right, without having to resort to massively distorting continents to get more detail in something that's already packed compared to the underdone rest of the world.
EU was named after a mid-90s French board game (which EU1 was the PC adaptation of). It has nothing to do with Paradox's design, which by this point has next to no trace of the original board game from what I know. So please don't bring up the name as an argument.
Game balance is something that the EU series has historically sucked at, and is moreover arguably irrelevant anyway since a moderately skilled player can turn an OPM into a continent-bestriding superpower by the end of the game's time frame.
The relatively small investment of time necessary to ensure borders that don't make somebody want to claw their eyes out ought to be a sine qua non.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
See the "ease of gameplay" part. IE, provinces of sufficient size (both length and width, eg no snake-province) to make them clickable while there's an army in them, for a start. He also appear to feel that concave-shaped province are better for gameplay value; I'm not sure why that is.
I agree the EU border are not good enough as they were in EU3 (...Istria...*), but on the flip side, an accurate map ala European MEIOU has splatter provinces (provinces consisting of a number of separate parts, eg the Trois Évéchés), snake provinces, and plenty of other unwieldy provinces that really don't led themselves to good gameplay.
*Which is supposedly fixed.
I agree the EU border are not good enough as they were in EU3 (...Istria...*), but on the flip side, an accurate map ala European MEIOU has splatter provinces (provinces consisting of a number of separate parts, eg the Trois Évéchés), snake provinces, and plenty of other unwieldy provinces that really don't led themselves to good gameplay.
*Which is supposedly fixed.
Oh, I wouldn't say that Paradox should be making all of their provinces purely historically. Necessarily, there's going to be a lot of simplification. You're not going to be able to have every single one of the imperial princes in there, or the various imperial knights, or the zillions of ecclesiastical princes. Lots of jurisdictions were confusing as all hell even at the time, much less now.
But at the same time, I really do think that there's an acceptable compromise between "impossible to use tiny provinces" and "amorphous gigantic blobs that don't correspond to anything at all".
But at the same time, I really do think that there's an acceptable compromise between "impossible to use tiny provinces" and "amorphous gigantic blobs that don't correspond to anything at all".
TheLastOne36
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MEIOU isn't like that anymore, not since Divine Wind (Aside for a few things like Kurland). I still don't like their map though because their Poland, Balkans and Russia is still terribly inaccurate and because they use the DAO map which is basically Vicky's Europe copy+pasted onto DW map.
Anyway, as a map modder, I respectfully disagree with most of you guys. I find that the map and provinces are important. Having seen both the frequently used DAO map as well as a side project of converting all of Vicky's map into Eu3, the new Europe while more correct, doesn't look as good as I hoped it would. (And other map modders agree, which is why a current project I am involved in is too copy Vicky's Asia + Black Sea into DW's Europe) With EU4's new graphics and terrains (and reintroduction of Topology) however, it could be completely different and I hope it is.
PS. That last letter from Jack Layton in your signature,
R.I.P. to Jack, I believe his one year anniversary is either coming up or past recently.
schlaufuchs
Break My Heart
The point is when you go through all this trouble to make such a massive, sweeping historical game, with just about every major historical polity you can think of covering a period of 400 years, and in which you the player will be doing literally nothing but looking at a map for hours on end, the least you can do is make the polities not look ass-backward. The least they could do is farm this part out to a group like the DAO mod. At least their maps are a step in the right direction. And hey, it worked with the Vicky 2 map, didn't it?
TheLastOne36
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Vicky is a completely different game, with a large part of the focus outside of Europe.
schlaufuchs
Break My Heart
That wasn't my point. What I was saying was Paradox was very successful with Vicky 2 in the sense of shopping their map out to an outside developer (modders, specifically) who made an absolutely spectacular map for that specific game, so if that kind of practice worked out with Vicky, why can't a similar move be done with EU4?
After MM, I think Paradox is done with doing official business with modders.
TheLastOne36
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Which is a shame(Especially as it won't be just Paradox, but other game producer companies who look at MM as an example.) because not all modders are nuts like Ubik.
Like I said, I'll have to get a better look at it myself first. Maybe the new terrain will change my opinion of the map.
Like I said, I'll have to get a better look at it myself first. Maybe the new terrain will change my opinion of the map.
hoplitejoe
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I think (hope) it won't have killed off the modder game, just that it will be a while till the next one and the modders will find themselves with a lot less freedom.
Andvare
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Ubik does come across as a complete nutter. Now, other team members have had, let's just say, not all to well developed PR skills, but at least what they actually created were good.
Ubik was a catastrophe from the start.
Johan said that the teams they would work together with in the future, at least had an actual office. He implied that all-mod team cooperation were dead.
That's, uh, not true at all, unless the map's been changed dramatically in the last several months.
TheLastOne36
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I'm talking about provinces, not the projection. The projection on the DAO map is consistent in eastern europe.
Unless you meant DAO being Vicky. It is. Compare the provinces.bmp of any mod with DAO with that of Vicky's.
Leonel
Breakfast Connoisseur
TO GET BACK ON THE TOPIC OF EUROPA UNIVERSALIS 4... 
...as well as the general discussion about the map, a new dev diary about the world map!
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...veloper-Diary-1-%96-The-world-is-at-your-feet
...as well as the general discussion about the map, a new dev diary about the world map!
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...veloper-Diary-1-%96-The-world-is-at-your-feet
TO GET BACK ON THE TOPIC OF EUROPA UNIVERSALIS 4...
...as well as the general discussion about the map, a new dev diary about the world map!
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...veloper-Diary-1-%96-The-world-is-at-your-feet
I already posted that. That's why we were talking about maps.
Leonel
Breakfast Connoisseur
Oh. My error
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