stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
Thanks 
G-Minor CVII
- Thread starter Denniz
- Start date
Rolled an interesting Spain/Lakes map again, wonder how it'll play out... I have GBR in Toledo but I found it quite late, + Cerro in Cordoba which is actually quite great for gpt->lump sum trades in peace deals.
I'm slightly ahead of my previous run in tech and pop, but very far behind in religion (and therefore culture and happiness), haven't even founded yet. Austria got a salt start and built GL again, this time on turn 53, despite being in a constant war with me. I planted 8 cities and I'm planning to take Vienna and Lisbon for a total of 10 cities later. Spain's tricky to play right because the early game can be so different from other civs. Finding GBR earlier would've sped up this start so much, e.g. I'd have probably had Colossus by now, or I could've just gone for a fast NC. But it's hard to predict which approach is better as Spain, rapid expansion with a late NC or fast NC with rapid expansion afterwards. I really don't know. I like the fast expansion early because it's fun to play.
I'm slightly ahead of my previous run in tech and pop, but very far behind in religion (and therefore culture and happiness), haven't even founded yet. Austria got a salt start and built GL again, this time on turn 53, despite being in a constant war with me. I planted 8 cities and I'm planning to take Vienna and Lisbon for a total of 10 cities later. Spain's tricky to play right because the early game can be so different from other civs. Finding GBR earlier would've sped up this start so much, e.g. I'd have probably had Colossus by now, or I could've just gone for a fast NC. But it's hard to predict which approach is better as Spain, rapid expansion with a late NC or fast NC with rapid expansion afterwards. I really don't know. I like the fast expansion early because it's fun to play.
Spoiler :
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
I definitely need to try this. It seems
a. really counter intuitive
b. rather impossible
to have 8 cities at T62. I suppose you have bought some from Cerro/GBR money. Your science is already well crazy for this point in the game
a. really counter intuitive
b. rather impossible
to have 8 cities at T62. I suppose you have bought some from Cerro/GBR money. Your science is already well crazy for this point in the game
I'll upload the map when I finish or scrap the game depending on how it goes.
I got the full 1500 gold from GBR and Cerro, so that's 3 settlers already. 5 cities by T62 is doable as any civ, so it's not difficult to get 8 cities up as Spain on a map like this. Manpanzee plays Liberty and consistently gets 6-8 cities up by T60ish as other civs too. I'd have stopped at 7 if I found Malacca earlier, I meant to plant my 8th city there.
T96 NC, got it earlier than Education this time!
Doesn't look like I'm ahead of the previous run anymore though, feels like the same pace and a T102 or 103 Education again. Not sure what went wrong, I guess I finished Tradition too late this time? Also have to build shrines and temples this time since the faith isn't quite as good, so that clutters the production queue. I do have one city advantage though, so maybe not all is lost. I'll probably enhance with temple happiness rather than Mosques here, and I should get a small army up soon to take Vienna and Lisbon.
T118, Universities up, Secularism, enhanced religion, getting some catapults to take AI's cities but I don't really think I can do this with the limited happiness, I've been avoiding growth in my cities already. Worst of all is that AIs aren't giving me their luxuries in peace deals - probably bullied them too much in the beginning. I feel like I'm 4-5 turns behind the other game now as well and this is going nowhere... It's a sub-200 game almost certainly at this point, but it won't beat T186. Scrap I think. :/
I got the full 1500 gold from GBR and Cerro, so that's 3 settlers already. 5 cities by T62 is doable as any civ, so it's not difficult to get 8 cities up as Spain on a map like this. Manpanzee plays Liberty and consistently gets 6-8 cities up by T60ish as other civs too. I'd have stopped at 7 if I found Malacca earlier, I meant to plant my 8th city there.
T96 NC, got it earlier than Education this time!
Spoiler :
Doesn't look like I'm ahead of the previous run anymore though, feels like the same pace and a T102 or 103 Education again. Not sure what went wrong, I guess I finished Tradition too late this time? Also have to build shrines and temples this time since the faith isn't quite as good, so that clutters the production queue. I do have one city advantage though, so maybe not all is lost. I'll probably enhance with temple happiness rather than Mosques here, and I should get a small army up soon to take Vienna and Lisbon.
T118, Universities up, Secularism, enhanced religion, getting some catapults to take AI's cities but I don't really think I can do this with the limited happiness, I've been avoiding growth in my cities already. Worst of all is that AIs aren't giving me their luxuries in peace deals - probably bullied them too much in the beginning. I feel like I'm 4-5 turns behind the other game now as well and this is going nowhere... It's a sub-200 game almost certainly at this point, but it won't beat T186. Scrap I think. :/
Spoiler :
Yeah, couldn't beat 186 and won on turn 192. With better faith that would've been T187, with better midgame ~T184 I guess. Didn't overshoot in tech this time, took only one AI capital for a 9-city empire just like in the previous game. I really want a game where I finally get GL as Spain on a wonderful map and everything goes my way, but that's asking for too much probably.
I used two GSs for Electricity and Radio to catch up to my other game and two more GSs for a T162 Plastics. Saved Oxford for Nanotechnology.
Lessons learnt:
- it's possible to win in 25 or less turns after Plastics with good faith and a wide empire with 2000+ bpt: 10 turns to bulb into Rocketry, 10-15 more to end the game
- getting Tradition finisher ASAP is top priority, turn 70 is a good target
- bullying AIs too much in the beginning makes the midgame painful as they won't trade their luxuries for less than 200 gpt
Attached the map, I *think* it has no map packs.
I used two GSs for Electricity and Radio to catch up to my other game and two more GSs for a T162 Plastics. Saved Oxford for Nanotechnology.
Spoiler :
Lessons learnt:
- it's possible to win in 25 or less turns after Plastics with good faith and a wide empire with 2000+ bpt: 10 turns to bulb into Rocketry, 10-15 more to end the game
- getting Tradition finisher ASAP is top priority, turn 70 is a good target
- bullying AIs too much in the beginning makes the midgame painful as they won't trade their luxuries for less than 200 gpt
Attached the map, I *think* it has no map packs.
Try adding Assyria and the Huns to your list of AI players. They are usually not much of a problem to the human player (especially on lower difficulty levels), but they slow down the other AI players and make it much easier to get wonders...even late in the game. I can often get GL between turn 70-75 in an expansion city.
I don't like AIs with early UUs because those inflate their army score too much. Makes it harder to bully CSs and AIs.
I started a game as Poland. Doing a Tradition 6/Liberty 3 mix on a Great Plains Plus, seems very strong so far. Did a 6-city NC (T89) and planted a 7th city afterwards. The problem is that I have no mountains so I won't have observatories or Machu Picchu. And ToA went on turn 46, very early for Prince... It's in Mecca which is pretty far away, but I might send a couple of Trebuchets there. It's probably the only city worth taking anyway, and I can build Machu Picchu there later.
I'm about to enhance religion with temple happiness and I still need to buy 6 Pagodas, so I should be able to grow the cities just fine, and then the ideology bonuses will come into play. Right now I'm ahead of my Spain games, but I don't think I can keep the lead without jungle tiles and mountains.
I started a game as Poland. Doing a Tradition 6/Liberty 3 mix on a Great Plains Plus, seems very strong so far. Did a 6-city NC (T89) and planted a 7th city afterwards. The problem is that I have no mountains so I won't have observatories or Machu Picchu. And ToA went on turn 46, very early for Prince... It's in Mecca which is pretty far away, but I might send a couple of Trebuchets there. It's probably the only city worth taking anyway, and I can build Machu Picchu there later.
I'm about to enhance religion with temple happiness and I still need to buy 6 Pagodas, so I should be able to grow the cities just fine, and then the ideology bonuses will come into play. Right now I'm ahead of my Spain games, but I don't think I can keep the lead without jungle tiles and mountains.
Spoiler :
That's the trade off you make. You are often saying how GL or ToA goes on turn 50ish in your games. I can build them up to turn 85ish consistently in my games. The difference is that I have 2 AI players bullying other AI players so that they don't build wonders. Of course, I also can't bully CS very much (1-2 times in the early game), but to me some of the early wonders make a bigger difference in the game than a little bit of CS gold from bullying.
I think it's just random, honestly. In my games I'm typically the one DoWing everyone and taking all the workers/settlers so you'd expect that to change AIs' production priorities the same way Attila would, but some are stubborn and just build GL/ToA out of spite.
To T150 of the Polish game.
I captured two of the closest AI capitals for a 9-city empire. As expected, my beakers are lower than in the Spanish games due to the lack of jungle and mountains. On the other hand, I'm going to pass Science Funding and I won't need to waste hammers on World's Fair, so I can just build research instead and perhaps get one more scientist than I normally would.
One thing that's a bit annoying is that I don't have aluminum in any of my 9 cities. That's pretty rare I think, usually when you have so many cities there's something close to the borders at least.
To T150 of the Polish game.
Spoiler :
One thing that's a bit annoying is that I don't have aluminum in any of my 9 cities. That's pretty rare I think, usually when you have so many cities there's something close to the borders at least.
T192 again. Could've probably finished this in under 190 turns if I built Pisa as early as I could. I suppose there was also the option of focusing culture more and finishing Liberty like Mesix did... Don't know if I could get it in time without WF or Cultural Heritage Sites though.
Poland's really strong, seemed on par with Spain but more consistent. I couldn't beat my Spain/Lakes runs but I think it's mostly because of the terrain. The science boost from jungles and observatories is gigantic.
Still have to try Korea.
Poland's really strong, seemed on par with Spain but more consistent. I couldn't beat my Spain/Lakes runs but I think it's mostly because of the terrain. The science boost from jungles and observatories is gigantic.
Still have to try Korea.
Spoiler :
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
I tried to replicate your style on the Spain map, but going 6 cities. I didn't finish but the bulbs were real, I think I would have been done by 210-215 which is wow for me
My best game yet. I'll post some pictures and details tomorrow if I have time.
You're right, I was able to finish in 24 turns after Plastics. I had 2 extra GS as well, so it could have been an even earlier game (if I had bulbed and earlier tech...like Plastics...with the extra GS, it would not have been 2x GS if I had finished earlier, but 1 more early on might have shaved 5-6 turns off the finish date).
Babylon for the win!
No need for natural wonders (I don't think any of them are in my borders). Just an old fashioned GS spamming game as Babylon. I was able to get 7 cities with river/mountain locations for every one of them. That is 7 Observatories which makes a huge difference! Here is my empire on the turn I launched:
Benchmarks:
4 cities and NC by turn 71.
Education on turn 86.
Astronomy on turn 99.
Scientific Theory on turn 124.
Plastics on turn 156.
Launched on turn 180.
I settled 5 GS outside Babylon where I built NC and rushed every science building. I set most other cities to prioritize science and made any increase to GS points a priority (science buildings, gardens, early LTOP, Avant Garde, DoF with Sweden, etc.). After settling 5 GS, I used 1 to bulb Architecture (leaving 1 turn for Scientific Method). After this, I horded all of my GS for the end game. I think I had 13 total in the late game, but may have lost count.
Akkad is a rather weak Petra city (you can't have everything in one map) and Dur-Kurigalzu is my culture center.
I had 5 GW when I finished World Fair + Cristo Redentor. This got me all the policies/tenets I needed. My policy path was:
Tradition opener
Liberty +2 to Collective Rule
Finished Tradition
Rationalism +3
Liberty - Citizenship
Freedom (2 free +3) 5 tenets total
Commerce +2 to Mercantilism
Opened Patronage
Finished Rationalism (for Satellites)
Freedom tenet to buy SS components
Finished Liberty (late GS for free)
I think I had a couple extra after this as well...
I am really digging the Tradition/Liberty blended approach. All I really need early on is Collective Rule for the free settler and bonus building settlers to expand. Citizenship is also nice, but Tradition finisher is best as early as possible. Getting a free GS in the late game is the icing on the cake (although it was overkill in this game). The blended approach slows down Tradition a bit, but allows for time to build/buy Monuments and Amphitheaters in the first 4 cities before Legalism.
Religion:
Desert Folklore (+1 faith per desert tile)
Tithe (+1 gold per 4 followers)
Divine Inspiration (+2 faith for wonders)
Pagodas
Reliquary (+50 faith each great person spent)
Standard build order in new cities Library > Watermill > Granary > Monument > Amphitheater. The later three cities got a University and an Observatory before building Amphitheaters.
No need for natural wonders (I don't think any of them are in my borders). Just an old fashioned GS spamming game as Babylon. I was able to get 7 cities with river/mountain locations for every one of them. That is 7 Observatories which makes a huge difference! Here is my empire on the turn I launched:
Spoiler :
Benchmarks:
4 cities and NC by turn 71.
Education on turn 86.
Astronomy on turn 99.
Scientific Theory on turn 124.
Plastics on turn 156.
Launched on turn 180.
I settled 5 GS outside Babylon where I built NC and rushed every science building. I set most other cities to prioritize science and made any increase to GS points a priority (science buildings, gardens, early LTOP, Avant Garde, DoF with Sweden, etc.). After settling 5 GS, I used 1 to bulb Architecture (leaving 1 turn for Scientific Method). After this, I horded all of my GS for the end game. I think I had 13 total in the late game, but may have lost count.
Akkad is a rather weak Petra city (you can't have everything in one map) and Dur-Kurigalzu is my culture center.
I had 5 GW when I finished World Fair + Cristo Redentor. This got me all the policies/tenets I needed. My policy path was:
Tradition opener
Liberty +2 to Collective Rule
Finished Tradition
Rationalism +3
Liberty - Citizenship
Freedom (2 free +3) 5 tenets total
Commerce +2 to Mercantilism
Opened Patronage
Finished Rationalism (for Satellites)
Freedom tenet to buy SS components
Finished Liberty (late GS for free)
I think I had a couple extra after this as well...
I am really digging the Tradition/Liberty blended approach. All I really need early on is Collective Rule for the free settler and bonus building settlers to expand. Citizenship is also nice, but Tradition finisher is best as early as possible. Getting a free GS in the late game is the icing on the cake (although it was overkill in this game). The blended approach slows down Tradition a bit, but allows for time to build/buy Monuments and Amphitheaters in the first 4 cities before Legalism.
Religion:
Desert Folklore (+1 faith per desert tile)
Tithe (+1 gold per 4 followers)
Divine Inspiration (+2 faith for wonders)
Pagodas
Reliquary (+50 faith each great person spent)
Standard build order in new cities Library > Watermill > Granary > Monument > Amphitheater. The later three cities got a University and an Observatory before building Amphitheaters.
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
That was impressive. I have just finished a Turn 199 Emperor SV as Spain but I didn't save it.
How do you get such a map, is this a Dry Great Plains with 3 Million age
How do you get such a map, is this a Dry Great Plains with 3 Million age
TyfoonTurk
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2011
- Messages
- 250
wow! nice job!
i would very much like to see a LP of one of these sub200's to learn from each other
i would very much like to see a LP of one of these sub200's to learn from each other
I didn't document much from my Babylon game, other than the benchmarks which I provided. In principle, it is a very similar approach to the Poland game which I provided a turn-by-turn play through of the post Plastics progression towards launch. The difference between turn 213 on that game and 180 on the later game can be attributed to Babylon UA and a
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEdrUoCqBAo and follow up from there. It's Immortal but tommynt was kind enough to record his entire game
