The Amazon's right breast.

I think that's precisely the problem, though - infantry culture, at the moment, is largely based on men saying, doing and drinking things that they wouldn't be comfortable with around women.

What kind of a problem is that?

Imagine if my boss wanted to hire a woman, but it's an office full of men. How in the world is saying: "Well, at the moment our office is full of men saying and doing things that they wouldn't be comfortable with around women. So we obviously can't hire women durrr" okay?

That's not a problem! That's an excuse. A stupid one. An offensive one!
 
What kind of a problem is that?

Imagine if my boss wanted to hire a woman, but it's an office full of men. How in the world is saying: "Well, at the moment our office is full of men saying and doing things that they wouldn't be comfortable with around women. So we obviously can't hire women durrr" okay?

That's not a problem! That's an excuse. A stupid one. An offensive one!

The office and the military are two different environments. The military has been connected with manliness and epitomized as the masculine profession.
 
I get it, the U.S. military is a sexist organization with many examples of institutionalized sexism.

What you don't do is point to that as an excuse not to admit women, but rather fix the goddamn problem.

My point is that while it may not be fair, integrated units should wait until the problem has been fixed. I mean, you don't drive over a bridge under repair because it might break and fall on you. I do not mean to imply that I think women shouldn't go into the military at all.
 
When the courts ruled that schools should be integrated, y'all went ahead and just did it and let the racists foam at their mouths while African americans were admitted to "white" schools.

If the problem is institutional, like in that case, then it will never be fixed if you "wait until the problem is fixed". You fix the problem by admitting women and dealing with sexist douchebags who can't deal with the situation accordingly.
 
The office and the military are two different environments. The military has been connected with manliness and epitomized as the masculine profession.

"We're [feces]bags and we want to continue to be [feces]bags because we've always been [feces]bags."

U.S. Army Uniform: Weight of Warfare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc5O6Y-Yeyw

How Much Weight Do Soldiers Have To Carry in Afghanistan?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w846UcmIo5o

As I noted before: if a man was unable to carry that weight, would you let them serve in a combat role? No. If a woman is able to carry the weight should you let her serve in a combat role? Yes. This is equal opportunity. Everyone gets an equal opportunity to demonstrate their aptitude and ability to perform the tasks demanded of them without prejudicial exclusion. This ain't rocket science.
 
From a shipboard perspective, I would have had no particular reason not to accept a woman on board. However, when I was stuck at sea for months on end part of the hardship was not getting laid. If anyone on the ship was able to avoid sharing that hardship they would likely have been slaughtered out of hand. So I think having women aboard ship would have created a potential for problems, and that it is far easier to avoid creating those problems than it is to solve them.
 
So men are apparently uncontrollable beasts? Sorry women, you can't serve in the navy because men
 
So men are apparently uncontrollable beasts? Sorry women, you can't serve in the navy because men

Who said anything about uncontrollable beasts?

If the crew of a ship has to endure hardships, they do. If some of the crew does, and some doesn't, that creates problems. There's nothing "beastly" about that. Anyone with even the most vestigial sense of justice could understand that. You must be trying extremely hard to maintain even a pretense that you don't understand it.
 
From a shipboard perspective, I would have had no particular reason not to accept a woman on board. However, when I was stuck at sea for months on end part of the hardship was not getting laid. If anyone on the ship was able to avoid sharing that hardship they would likely have been slaughtered out of hand. So I think having women aboard ship would have created a potential for problems, and that it is far easier to avoid creating those problems than it is to solve them.
Worked on a US flagged survey vessel in the Gulf of Mexico, had 2 deck hands, one male the other female, when we tied up to another vessel, the male, a small Latino lad had no problem. The female had to call out the Male, she wasn't strong enough to handle the ropes, upper body strength.

As for other problems, Kratman covers them, there's a reason woman were taboo for centuries.
 
:rolleyes:

Or a hysterectomy. And everyone could wear chastity belts.

Hmm, there may be a point to this after all. Could give the keys to veterans, that would get more guys to join. ;)
 
Worked on a US flagged survey vessel in the Gulf of Mexico, had 2 deck hands, one male the other female, when we tied up to another vessel, the male, a small Latino lad had no problem. The female had to call out the Male, she wasn't strong enough to handle the ropes, upper body strength.

As for other problems, Kratman covers them, there's a reason woman were taboo for centuries.

Yeah. Your anecdotal evidence is very compelling.

As is your appeal to tradition.
 
Wasn't it traditionally two Vietnamese women who lead the army against Chinese invaders?

Or am I misremembering the configuration of their unmentionables?

Well yeah. Even as an appeal to tradition it's not a particularly good one. One glance at Medieval and Early Modern combat practices would immediately and unequivocally show that "combat is a man's world" is really a rather recent phenomenon.
 
Wasn't it traditionally two Vietnamese women who lead the army against Chinese invaders?

Or am I misremembering the configuration of their unmentionables?
What exactly did they do, were they like Joan of Arc, out in front in the battles or quoting from the opening post:
Something herstorians (sic) trot out regularly (illustrating thereby their own intense lack of fitness to comment) are the examples of royalty – Vietnam’s Trung sisters, Queen Teuta of Illyria, Elizabeth I of England – and female political chiefs – Golda Meir and Indira Gandhi, for example.
How valid are examples like those? Not too very. They do show something about the intense devotion a female chief can inspire in her male followers, true. And that’s about it.
Royal and politically highly placed women are above the ruck and muck, you see; so elevated that romance and sex – even where these women don’t fall under what we might well call the “mom factor,” men’s natural devotion and obedience to mother figures – are more or less unthinkable to the rank and file. Such women are, in the nature of their positions, not integrated, even in the rare cases where they’re not past the age to inspire romantic leanings in others. That said, both the Trungs and Teuta are examples of feminists ignoring the rest of the story where convenient; they may know about and cite to these women, noting in particular Teuta’s defiance of Rome. They won’t usually tell anyone that the Trungs were defeated and committed suicide, or that Teuta’s fate was defeat in war followed by dismemberment of her kingdom, along with a hefty punitive tribute to Rome.
Above the fray.
 
There once was a boy on a quest
To rightfully turn the West
Ignoring the left
To the edge of the cleft
Starved by a lack of breast
[emoji2] who holds the (c)? this guy is hilarious!
 
Top Bottom