"Perfect" MP science path?

So setting aside starting conditions, imagine you have a MP game where the other players aren't aggressive and will essentially leave you alone to build your empire....what is the "perfect" route for a science victory? (So like a perfect build order in a vacuum)

I mean in terms of which choices in the tech tree until the end, social policies up to and including rationalism/religion and pantheon choices, and build order in cities/number of cities? Kind of like this guide, but updated: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=530940

I know there will be differences on starting such as choosing calendar vs mining to hook up different kinds of luxuries but in general I mean. All the guides I've seen are outdated using the old tradition tree.

I always get lost in the mid-game with the sheer number of buildings/techs/where to go after tradition but before rationalism. I've been practising with Ethiopia for the fast religion (to get the good ones for growth etc before the other players) but I get screwed on happiness after founding two cities and just get lost in the tech tree/build order.

Cheers.

It depends on civ/ difficulty/tech.
I've been playing OCC for a bit to try things out.

This is what I do with OCC babylon on emperor ( so this is a wonder spamming game, which is different than immortal/deity where you can ignore wonders )

TECHS:
1- writing
2-mining ( if you have ressources for it )
3-mathematics
4-pop currency with great library
5-philosophy
6-theology
7-civil servive
8-education
9.compass
10.pop astronomy with oxford
11.metal casting
12.machinery
13.printing press
14.scientific theory
15.radio
16 mettalurgy
18 fertilizer
19. plastics
20 penicilin
21- telecommunication
22.sattelites
23 advanced ballistics
24.pasticle physics
25.nanotech

This is the build order with OCC.
Assume desert start, emperor, and no faith ruin/city state

1. scout, worker ( AI don't start with any on emperor and below )
2.shrine
3. granary
4.great library
5 petra
6 hanging gardens
7 national college
8 temple of artemis
9 market
10 caravans
**** now this is where playing against the AI and not people matters, because from this point on, you should only buy buildings with gold from AI loans and use production for wonders ***
11 borobudur -- have to spread religion for tithe / pilgrimage insano bonus
12.mausoleum of halucarnassus
13.writer's guild, start oracle
14.oxford ( should be around time to build this now ). finish oracle as you get astronomy.
15chicken itza
16 artist guild
17east india
18 machu pichu
19 ironworks
20 leaning tower
21 alhambra
22 porcelain tower
23 world's fair
24 red fort
25 taj mahal to go with Universal suffrage
26 statue of liberty
27 bradelburg gate
28 switch city to full research from this point on, only buy things with gold still
29 appolo program
30 hubble ( great engineer it if you have the spare faith )

This is the policy tree I take:

- tradition
-aristocray ( for great library bonus )
-legalism, landed elite, monarchy

Ideally you don't open patronage before rennaissance

rationalism - secularism - humanism - free thought
patronage - philanthrophy - scholasticism
freedom - avant garde - civil society - universal suffrage - universal health care - new deal
commerce
sovereignty - scientific revolution
mercenary army - mercantilism
space procurement

For religion I pick desert faith, swords into plowshares ( 15% food growth ) and tithe ( gold for followers )
Enhance I pick religious community ( 15% production bonus ) and spread 50% faster

All of this mostly applies to multiple cities anyway.

For multiple cities, ignoring wonders, this is the order I'd build things:

- granary, library, water mill, university, observatory, garden, workshop, market, bank, public school, factory, stock exchange, research lab, hospital, medical lab, windmill, full research.

I don't think I'd build great library if not OCC, it delays your expansions too much.

So in capital, probably:
scout, scout, shrine, settler, settler, granary, caravan, library, national college
and then just whatever. Sometimes another settler hard-build, but usually I try to only buy them for gold.

Red_Baron said:

All the guides I've seen are outdated using the old tradition tree.

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The nerf to Tradition was very modest. Now you have the option to hard build a Monument and get a free Amphitheater. But it seems to me most people prefer just to wait for the free monument.

The most important SP in Tradition is the free and early Aqueducts. That perk comes three or four turns later than it used to (or maybe hard building the Monument makes up for it, I have not seen the numbers for that discussed). It is not really accurate to characterize pre-patch Tradition guides as “outdated” when so little has changed!

there is a threa ccalled Fast Science Victory which is a perfect way to learn it. If you're playing MP but every1 leaves you alone, then it will be the same as SP, minus Research Arrangements.

beetle said:

most people prefer just to wait for the free monument.

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Definitely not. All the best players recommend building a monument. It would be much to slow at the begining to wait for Legaism before having any extra culture.

hiawafer said:

All the best players recommend building a monument.

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I am happy to have you assert that my play style (on this point at least) is what “all the best players recommend.” I am not so confident about that! Hopefully we will hear from some of them...

It would be much too slow at the begining to wait for Legaism before having any extra culture.

Click to expand...

That is not really accurate. Hard building the monument only get you a few extra turns of +2 culture. Where hard building the monument really pays off is with getting the free Amphitheater (and that takes a while to unlock).

beetle said:

I am happy to have you assert that my play style (on this point at least) is what “all the best players recommend.” I am not so confident about that! Hopefully we will hear from some of them...


That is not really accurate. Hard building the monument only get you a few extra turns of +2 culture. Where hard building the monument really pays off is with getting the free Amphitheater (and that takes a while to unlock).

Click to expand...

I recall culture costs being 25/30/60 for tradition/oligarchy/legalism. This is 25 turns to tradition and 23 more to reach legalism.

Let's assume a constant 5 production and a starting build order of of scout scout shrine monument. This is 25+25+40+40=130 production or 26 turns. At this point, tradition was opened a turn ago and 86 production is necessary. Legalism will be obtained in 15 turns. Legalisk is obtained 8 turns faster if a monument is built.

My personal preference is getting lucky and rolling a culture ruin

Iamteehee said:

Legalism will be obtained in 15 turns. Legalism is obtained 8 turns faster if a monument is built.

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Eight turns building a monument to get Legalism eight turns faster.

Sounds like a total wash to me!

I think there are sound reasons to hard a monument, but that “it would be much too slow at the beginning to wait for Legalism before having any extra culture” is not one of them!

If going Tradition you shouldn't build a monument. But question is what to do on turn 0(or 3-4 after scout) when you have so few information?

It's hard to decide what is going to work best between Tradition and Liberty if you don't know if you have enough space to work Liberty. But usually Tradition is the safest bet because maps rarely offer enough space for a full grown Liberty approach(read 5-6 self built cities) unless you wanna rush the first guy met mo matter what