Comparing Science Victory Speed with Cultural Victory Speed

Time all your digs for that civ to end at the same turn. Then, when they complain, promise not to dig in their lands anymore -- you don't care; there's nothing left to dig up anyway.
It doesn't work like that. I think the AI actually counts stolen artifacts because the times I tried stealing several in one turn, they got really mad, as opposed to little diplo hit from one stolen artifact.
 
It doesn't work like that. I think the AI actually counts stolen artifacts because the times I tried stealing several in one turn, they got really mad, as opposed to little diplo hit from one stolen artifact.

Yes, if you time all the digs in their territory to end on the same turn, which takes a little thought, as the dig times very due to terrian, then you only get ONE diplo hit for digging in their territory... and IF you build them one monument, you counteract that diplo hit, and agree to NOT steel an more artifacts, the diplo hit is smaller than the diplo bonus.
 
If I'm reading this correctly, the Leaning Tower is important simply as another 25% modifier to your Great Person generation. That would suggest that not having fresh water start is as fatal to fast CV as not getting Pisa, considering it means no garden? Can CV be saved by building your Guilds in a city other than your capital that does have fresh water? It would likely be harder to get Pisa in that city from a production standpoint (likely lower population) so that's still potentially an issue. On a related note, is there a necessity for your guilds to be in your city with the most tourism (e.g. national visitor centre) or do you simply want them wherever you can get the most bonuses to GP generation?
 
Pisa provides +25% Great Person generation empire-wide, so it doesn't matter what city you build it in. If you can't build a Garden in your capital, National Epic can fill that function (although both Garden and NE are preferable). The main tension in city selection for guilds is whether you also want to enhance Great Scientist generation in that city.
 
I almost always put my guilds in the capital for CV, because I can better afford to staff them and the scientists full-time, and putting the NE in my cap will enhance both GS and GWAM generation. The cap is also where I'll likely put the Hermitage, meaning that the culture from the specialists will go farther (in addition to the +33% from the Aesthetics policy, as I'm not likely to have WW anywhere other than the cap).
 
Interesting thread. I played through about ten cultural games on deity during last few months, since domination victories were getting a little repetitive. The culmination was a t.232 win with 4 city India start and luckily placed Constantinople next door, stocked with temple of artemis and the leaning tower of pisa (double jackpot!), which i conquered, was certainly a deciding factor.

Anyway, i tend to think the fastest (outside sacred sites) cultural path lies through a little bit of warring with crossbows (or frigates, if the map commands it). Liberty is also a viable option, like Manannan suggests (especially when we compare it to honor), however tradition doesn't restrict gameplay to four cities, creating a synergy between peaceful initial expansion and mid game (t.120-140) annexation of a couple strong cities. Sure, annexing 10 more cities is also a way to go, and certainly a fun one, but i find this way to be generally slower than healthy "hit once or twice and consolidate".

Interestingly, i tend to use the same tech. path when going completely peaceful and when doing some warring mid-game. It goes like this:

1. Acoustics. Sistine Chapel helps a lot when trying to fill 4 Rationalism policies fast. I do pick aesthetics opener first, obviously. Sometimes, when i'm able to get the Oracle, i get two in Aesthetics, before going deep into rationalism.

2. Guilds, Machinery, Printing Press. I save 660 for the university in the capital. The rest of the cash is for upgrading composites. Leaning tower is very tempting. Always. But i slap myself on the wrist and get 4 knights instead. Sometimes i give in.

3. Architecture. Mainly on the way to scientific theory, but, occasionally snagging Ufizzi or early Hermitage can add to the confidence.

4. World's fair. Usually hits at the most inappropriate time - when i'm hard building public schools. But, pausing the schools is usually worth it. The only viable workaround here is to finance purchase of public schools through spoils of war. Very strong move, actually. I always "waste" one writer few turns after fair is won. Yields about 2k culture, on a good day.

5. Ideologies. Opening Radio with Oxford seems to be a must. Eiffel tower.. bought with faith, usually. And, of course there is little reason to delay building archaeologists like crazy from that point onwards, which is around t.180, on average. Squeeze the factory in here, rush a museum in there...

6. The final push - fertiliser, research labs, internet, then airports, if needed.

7. I try to place writer's guild somewhere outside Cap. Running 2 guilds and a Uni in the same city is.. a little too much for me.

Generally, t.240 - 270 CV's are likely with this path. The range is so great as there is little way to predict the depth of cultural wells of your opponents. However, army is strong ally, which is able to shift odds and speed up wins, where as peaceful approach is a little bit of a gamble.
 
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