Great Plains Shoshone. Like to have some advice.

Hi. I'd like to have some advice.

I would like to go domination victory, this is immortal difficulty standart size, epic speed.

Settled in place.
I got 3 ruins, took culture, pop and unit upgrade.(2 ruins where taken from under my nose, arrrrrrgh)

Went Scout, Shrine, Worker so far.

Went tradition, oligarchie and free monuments is next of course.

As you can see there is mongolia directly east and siams borders to the south.

Which pantheon would you go for(culture from pastures is gone) and which spots(how many citys) would you go for first?(alternatives, if siam or mongolia take them first)

How much citys for NC?



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Unless I could have gotten one of the top pantheons (Festivals, Desert Folklore, etc) I wouldn't have bothered with a domination victory in mind, since the 8-10 turns it took to build your shrine can make the difference between a composite rush being effective or not.

That said, you did build it and I would choose God of War so that every time you take a city and finish off the stragglers you will gain a small advantage.

Desert folklore is available, but does it make sense?

Where would you settle your citys?

2 citys + Nationale College or more?

I had half in mind to start a later attack with universitys first, i don't care about the date i win as long as it's halfway solid gameplay.

No, folklore does NOT make sense. You will not gain enough faith from it. God of War will give you 10x more, minimum.

Attacking after universities just makes it harder, IMO. But it's your game

Looks like a tough map! Looks like you are on the left edge of the edge, and have only room for two expos (until you get your warmonger groove on).

I would first try and settle the spot with barb camp 7 hexes SW. Its on a river hill next to mountain, just about perfect!

Second and last expo (certainly before NC) I would settle is 6 hexes due W of cap for copper and gems. It's not on hill, but is on river next to mountain. Since you are on the edge of the map, and prolly don't need to worry about AI sniping the spot, maybe wait until NC to claim it?

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress!

Thanks for the input to you both.

I would totally make different choices, but for the sake of learning i will try go with some of your choices.

I like the idea of a more active way to get faith, let's see if god of war will also be of use for longer into the game when the units are stronger.

I hope i can get that spot south where the barb camp is, although i would probably settle west of it for more river tiles and wheat or settle in DKs face on a hill with overlap to my capitol, since i plan on war with him anyway and the city would protect my capitol from beeing a direct target, if i don't attack myself as early as he does.

If you are very aggressive (I am not), then pick Earth Mother for pantheon, settle on salt between you and GK, then kill him and take his sweet salty land.

I only played to turn 68, but a lot of things happened. Trying something new basicly, only won peacefull so far on Immortal. So i took God of War as a Pantheon. It didn't pay off quite yet, but i guess it's not meant to be effective from killing just 3 barbs^^

Siam is being Siam (as you can see) and DK is being DK (Brussel is a goner)

I wonder if i should wait for bronze working with my second settler, i just cleared a barb camp 3 turns ago NE of la venta and i'd like to put him on the plains tile next to the mountain while it's save there and my scout archer can already go in another direction..

My other hero scout who is currently healing near brazil on the other side of the map found a late ruin somewhere in the corner, 90 faith thank you very much.

I wonder, if i make it to construction while building the NC before DK attacks me. I will get a free unit from almaty at least which is nice. At some point i want to attack or want to be attacked by DK of course so the pantheon can shine.

Ah yes and i bought a worker for 420 gold to free up some production(a nice thing is that you find all the city states on this map very early with just one scout running around, also Siam gave me 52 bucks for my Embassy. As soon as the salt is hooked up i hope i can soak up some more cash on the barrelhead from him, because he is already friendly with me.

What does DK stand for?
It makes me crazy when the AI settles cities only 3 hexes apart. I cannot think rationally when human players do that.

DK = Dschingis Khan

Do you mean i settled to close to my capitol for your taste?

Well my first choice would have probably been a city like you suggested, which hooks the gold up, but I'm not afraid of having overlap.

I used to play Civ 4 on deity and overlap is a big concept there, also shortterm >>>> longterm in my view, so i have no problem popping a city 3 tiles away from my capitol as long as the other side of it offers some nice tiles. Also this is a plains map, so i don't think overlap will ever come into play here + there was no way getting both salts and settling on a hill and i wanted to get 300+ gold for one of them asap.

+ 3 tile road is a small shortterm benefit
+ capitol is protected by a hill city now

This is just my argumentation, i understand that tile sharing usually doesn't play a big role in civ 5 and that super large citys in the late game want to use all the tiles they can get.

I'm open for criticism though, but keep in mind domination + food poor map.(I mean the capitol will never be very tall in this game)

Ok te moak is not really food poor, it will probably become bigger than the capitol at some point, if everything goes according to plan and i don't fail xd

Edit: + also settling towards DK can go nicely with my Pantheon God of War, if he doesn't attack way to early now.

turned out well so far. Sold one salt to siam for 311 + 1gpt and got the salt quest from Lhasa(religious), which after hooking up the other salt made me ally for at least 11 turns now.

Strickl3r said:

Do you mean i settled to close to my capitol for your taste?

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Yes, and I will confess it is mostly just my strong prejudices. OTOH, with Shoshone in particular, you are wasting much of the power of the UA.

Just wanted to update so nobody thinks I'm a quitter, haha. I play MP most of the times when friends are online.

I took out DKs Capitol and liberated 2 city states which made him rage quit with no city left. I have 3 friends(poland, siam, venice) who where also at war with him, so no warmonger penalty there, but with the other guys.

Decided to just use CBs, i don't know i just can't handle catapults they just annoy me.
6 CBs and 2 swordman did the job, it was almost to much units.

So looks like 1 ad, 1 capitol and Education, i guess that is not to bad so far, but I'm very unexperienced with domination.

I'd like to take Venice now, but I'm not sure if i want to be a backstabber, because i have a friendship going on with him which will last for 41 turns.

Not sure about a city between Karakorum and Venice for some extra stuff(wine, more salt, 2 iron, riverside)



by the way i have a religion and picked holy warriors. Unfortunately God of War seems to suck quite a bit i only got faith from 2 units out of it. Is this Pantheon only good in the late game? I mean 3 faith from a swordman is kind of pittyfull, i would have made a lot more with just working the 2 diamonds with +2 faith or i could have just taken God King for a faster boost.

Thanks for following up. Nice job taking out DK!

For this game, I think you should reload 10 turns back and not sign the DOF with Venice. The diplo penalty for breaking that is worse than what you get from wiping out a civ.

The way you found cities I think you should try Liberty in the future. Going wide works well with the Shoshone UA.

I am not a fan of God of War. The battles have to be close to your city, so most games that is just a few barbs. The Pantheon is weak late game too!

It's a shame i don't have the initial save. I would actually like to retry with liberty just to see the difference. I'd love to squeeze in 2 more citys so far already.

edit: oh that's right the game saves more than one Initial, so i still got it.

Strickl3r said:

i would have made a lot more with just working the 2 diamonds with +2 faith or i could have just taken God King for a faster boost.

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Just to rub salt in the wound, Earth Mother would have been even better...